That could have been solved by CBS/P taking the Anne Rice route and shutting everyone down. The victim in this case is CBS/P and what you're suggesting is that the victims are to blame.
JAMES CAWLEY SPEAKS!
- Thread starter HerbFlynn
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That could have been solved by CBS/P taking the Anne Rice route and shutting everyone down. The victim in this case is CBS/P and what you're suggesting is that the victims are to blame.
Renegades was a bit different than Peters. The creators of Renegades didn't constantly lash out at CBS/Paramount, and while they raised a boatload of money and hired top actors - they actually created a movie.
You can't really compare the two.
Axanar raised over a million and never made the promised Axanar feature, never completed any of the sets that were funded, and received thousands of dollars of donated goods (screens, cameras, etc) that all went to nothing.
While its true that Renegades may have been pushing the envelope, you can say the same of Continues and New Voyages, all of which attempted to get a professional level of polish and sophistication.
You can't really compare the two.
Axanar raised over a million and never made the promised Axanar feature, never completed any of the sets that were funded, and received thousands of dollars of donated goods (screens, cameras, etc) that all went to nothing.
While its true that Renegades may have been pushing the envelope, you can say the same of Continues and New Voyages, all of which attempted to get a professional level of polish and sophistication.
He wasn't making a moral judgement on with regards to CBS/Paramount. He simply pointed out a cyclical pattern involving technology and copyright, and how it tends to lead to a pattern of copyright abuse and corresponding crackdowns by rights holders.
I'm not as convinced as you are that another project couldn't have triggered a similar response. I think this borne out by the Fan Film Guidelines themselves, which basically ban all the projects you just mentioned. I also think that new projects would have trended towards greater abuse over time, so given enough time, the probability of an Axanar-like scenario approaches one.
Again, you seem to be reading my statement as an absolute rather than my opinion of these events.
You are correct, I believe it was John Van Critters, who gave the whole big interview on the guidelines, who implied that it was specifically STC, Renegades and STNV (without naming them) as being part of a "fan films arms race" as to who can make the biggest, most professional, most trek alumni etc. - blurring the lines between the backyard/garage fan films and those that could have almost been lifted straight from the TV screen. While those were indeed concerning, I think it was specifically the Axanar situation that triggered the guidelines and CBS slapdown. I don't believe the announcement of Star Trek Discovery "shortly" after wasn't another deciding factor.
I think STC is getting away with ignoring the guidelines for two reasons:
1) They've kept a good relationship with CBS.
2) They have a defined "we're all done" date and they're close to it.
I think that even given (1), they would not be allowed to continue (heh) in an open-ended way, nor would they have been allowed to continue if their plan was to do another 6 or 8 or more episodes.
No license, absolutely. No actual legal protection might not be as clear. There's a legal doctrine that surfaces in things like detrimental reliance, estoppel, and other broadly-related things that even without a contract there's a line past which you can't lead people to believe you won't take action against them if they do X, Y, Z, and then when they do X, Y, and Z you sue them anyways. I don't know if the guidelines are or are not over that line. But they do make a strong statement (see below) that "CBS will not...take legal action against..."
And as for the charges of "unfairness" some are leveling, the guidelines never say that you will face action if you ignore them. They only say "CBS and Paramount Pictures will not object to, or take legal action against, Star Trek fan productions that are non-professional and amateur and meet the following guidelines..."
CBS/P got a chance to look generous in return for Vic trying to be as honest and above board as possible while making it damn clear that he wasn't going to make any money and STC gets to say they finished on their own terms.
3) CBS doesn't really care that much about fan films - it hates people who try to build a rival business using their IP.
I think it was the money that Axanar managed to collect that triggered this. CBS/Paramount started to realize that if Axanar could collect that much money, anyone could finance a fan production that would be potentially capable of matching CBS in production quality. I think that if ANY production had raised that much money, a similar scenario would have played out.
4) CBS is deathly afraid that Vic will turn the entire company into a Philosopher's Stone.
It wasn't just the money.
That was certainly a big part of the issue, but if Axanar had toed the line, made an awesome 2 hour fan film, didn't merchandise or badmouth CBS and didn't try to create a business on stolen IP - I think CBS would have taken a softer approach rather than bringing down the ban-hammer.
If there is one thing I can point to that I think really pissed off CBS, it's the attitude. Everyone but Axanar respected the demarcation between amateur and commercial, and most of them donated a lot of their own funds into their productions.
Thing is, though, since Axanar's behavior was so obviously exceptional, it actually makes less sense in that regard as to why CBS cracked down so hard, because everyone involved would naturally see Axanar as a special case. CBS doesn't need a page full of guidelines to say "Don't be an Axanar!" or "Don't make commercial fan films".
It makes perfect sense; CBS dose NOT want this to happen again so making an example of AP makes perfect sense. He asked for it and he got it (he knowingly pushed beyond what was acceptable and understood by every other fan production). Every other fan production was just collateral damage thanks to the limits pushed by AP
That's just it. The whole "just collateral damage" thing doesn't wash because the guidelines seem so carefully tailored to discourage all but a carefully defined subset of fan films. I'd hazard a guess that most of the "grandfathered" fan films would otherwise violate the guidelines. That's well beyond preventing another Axanar. They have a very specific idea of what a fan film should be.
How does in not 'Wash'?
The Guidlines were because CBS/Paramount wanted to make it reasonably sure another idiot fan like Alec Peters wouldn't assume they could just do what they want (IE Crowdfund for whatever they could achieve); run a 'Donor Store' with unlicensed Star Trek merchandise, etc.
The sued to make it CLEAR this level of profiteering and building a new business off of their Star Trek IP wouldn't be tolerated and released Guidelines of what they would grudgingly tolerate with regard to any fan use of the IP in the hopes they would never have to sue such a fan with goals like Alec Peters again.
They don't need a full page of guidelines to do that. You basically communicated that message in a couple of sentences. The purpose of the guidelines goes beyond suppressing naked profiteering greed. It forbids a variety of things in painstaking detail. This doesn't come cross as a knee-jerk reaction to Axanar. They knew exactly what they wanted.
Matt, Van Criters himself stated that it was in part due the "arms race" of fanfilms becoming more "professional" and starting to look like almost like real tv shows. I'm still of the opinion that the Axanar debacle played a big part in the guidelines being structured the way they are
