My theory on why Kes wasn't a more beloved character. Also opinion on Lien. post-"Voyager."

[Trekkin]

Books aren't canon. No such thing happened in the show. The options are 'natural life span' or 'prisoner/pet of crazy people.'

Why would the Ocampa even want to expand their lives to human length? They're not human. They give no indication of wanting to be.

Yes, people instinctively fight death (particularly of the painful variety). But few of us are really desperately trying to find a way to imitate giant tortoises. Or in Treks case, you never see people like Kirk or McCoy getting bent out of shape over Spock possibly outliving them by a wide margin.

 

[Prax]

Maybe.

But they could protect the Ocampa on the planet from the Kazon and prolong their lifespans as well.

However, in the book "Caretaker" which is written after thr script for the episode, it is stated that The Caretaker downloaded all his knowledge to the Ocampa shortly before he died so maybe they could do all those things themselves, without any help from Tanis and his people.

I meant Tanis and his secretive Ocampa. He looked upon humans as insects. He cared about Kes in a sense, but was pretty Ruthless. I don't think the Caretaker was evil. He's actually pretty sympathetic...just a bad...caretaker. I like to think that the caretaker and Suspiria used to go by names Korob and Sylvia. The woman is filled with a lust for new experience, and lacks empathy, is deceitful, and can be vengeful. The man is empathetic, honest, and caring, but a pushover when it comes to his mate. He cowers to her will. He's. ..too caring, and she eventually got bored.

 

[Prax]

Books aren't canon. No such thing happened in the show. The options are 'natural life span' or 'prisoner/pet of crazy people.'

Why would the Ocampa even want to expand their lives to human length? They're not human. They give no indication of wanting to be.

Yes, people instinctively fight death (particularly of the painful variety). But few of us are really desperately trying to find a way to imitate giant tortoises. Or in Treks case, you never see people like Kirk or McCoy getting bent out of shape over Spock possibly outliving them by a wide margin.

Perhaps you haven't tried the cellular regeneration and entertainment chamber. I'd highly recommend a free 8 hour session.

 

[Trekkin]

The guy who invented it is named Giger. You'd come out of it looking like

Now, regardless of how epic that particular crossover would be...

 

[unimatrix7]

Well, you can always read my awful fanfiction. It's on the Kes Website.

I remember that I did feel a certain enthusiasm when the rumors came out about a return of Kes. In fact, after not watching the series for two years (the result of the events in "The Gift") I actually started watching it again, spending a considerable sum of money on borrowing VHS tapes with the season 4 and season 5 episodes to catch up with what I have missed. Some episodes into season 6 I had done that and could watch the episodes as they were aired again.

I was also happy that an ongoing letter and mail campaign for having Kes re-instated as a main character had given some result.

Well, I was in for a big dissapointment, wasn't I?

Fortunately, I was warned by some friends in the US who had watched the episode what to expect when the epsisode was aired where I live about half a year after it had been aired in the US.

But it was still a shock to watch that horrible, insulting crap. Only sheer greed (TV:s are expensive) and some concern for the people on the street below prevented me from throwing out the TV from the window that day.

I also saw, and still see it as a downright insult from those in charge against those who have started the letter campaign and us who participated in it. That episode was the reply we got from Berman and his gang.

As for your questions about certain things in the episode, well the episode is so full of contradictions that it looks like it have been written by someone who haven't watched a single episode of the series.

I must also say that I don't care at all about the visual effects which Braga and Fuller came up with. I prefer good written stories instead of effects.

The whole episode was an insulting piece of crap. The worst episode ever in any TV series.

Another deranged screed. If you're moved to defenestrate a TV because of something you just watched, then I suggest your anger management issues need...managing. I say that in recognition of the fact that Kes in Fury returned to Voyager with clear mental health issues. It's really unfortunate that you choose to interpret her actions as evil, when they were clearly the product of chronic mental illness.

It's especially unfortunate because Jennifer Lien would later suffer similar ailments. Do you think Lien is evil for vandalising a cop car or exposing herself to her neighbours? Or do you think she's in desperate need of the kind of help Janeway gave Kes in Fury?

Or, do you think Jennifer Lien is also 'Suspiria in disguise'? I think it's very disappointing that someone who professes to love Jennifer Lien would be so zealous in attributing her actions to evil.

I like Fury a lot, because it speaks to me on that level as a Trekkian meditation on mental health issues. I like it for the same reason I liked Extreme Risk. Fury, however, had the added bonus of Kes returning to the fold. That it was a production of stunning quality is a secondary issue.

But yeah I know how it goes. From my Lynx auto-reply script:

- You're insulted
- You're offended
- It was offensive
- How dare they
- Who do they think they are?
- You make up fairy stories in my head so you can live with it
- You're insulted
- You're offended
- It was insulting
- It was offensive

 

[Sophie74656]

Werent they sort of evil?

It came off that way. He was pushing so hard for Kes to join him that it seemed like he had a sinister motive behind it.

 

[Sophie74656]

Another deranged screed. If you're moved to defenestrate a TV because of something you just watched, then I suggest your anger management issues need...managing. I say that in recognition of the fact that Kes in Fury returned to Voyager with clear mental health issues. It's really unfortunate that you choose to interpret her actions as evil, when they were clearly the product of chronic mental illness.

It's especially unfortunate because Jennifer Lien would later suffer similar ailments. Do you think Lien is evil for vandalising a cop car or exposing herself to her neighbours? Or do you think she's in desperate need of the kind of help Janeway gave Kes in Fury?

Or, do you think Jennifer Lien is also 'Suspiria in disguise'? I think it's very disappointing that someone who professes to love Jennifer Lien would be so zealous in attributing her actions to evil.

I like Fury a lot, because it speaks to me on that level as a Trekkian meditation on mental health issues. I like it for the same reason I liked Extreme Risk. Fury, however, had the added bonus of Kes returning to the fold. That it was a production of stunning quality is a secondary issue.

But yeah I know how it goes. From my Lynx auto-reply script:

- You're insulted
- You're offended
- It was offensive
- How dare they
- Who do they think they are?
- You make up fairy stories in my head so you can live with it
- You're insulted
- You're offended
- It was insulting
- It was offensive

This was something I've always felt about Fury. We've seen in a previous episode that part of the normal Ocampan aging process is extreme memory loss. It does make sense that when we see her she is in the beginning of that and her memories are becoming scrambled, similar to dimentia.

I also felt that her anger has to do with just becoming more adult and experiencing life more. Since leaving her home world she experienced new things, gained new knowledge and ascended to a higher plane of existence where she undoubtedly saw and experienced much more. Looking back on her life she realized that being a teenager and running away from her homeworld, parents ams family, everything she knew and loved, with the.equivalent of a space trucker (though a very kind and sweet one) was maybe not the best idea. Certainly as teenager many of us have done things that we look back on as adults and think It was ver stupid even though at the time ot seemed like a good idea.

 

[Sophie74656]

Well, you can always read my awful fanfiction. It's on the Kes Website.

I remember that I did feel a certain enthusiasm when the rumors came out about a return of Kes. In fact, after not watching the series for two years (the result of the events in "The Gift") I actually started watching it again, spending a considerable sum of money on borrowing VHS tapes with the season 4 and season 5 episodes to catch up with what I have missed. Some episodes into season 6 I had done that and could watch the episodes as they were aired again.

I was also happy that an ongoing letter and mail campaign for having Kes re-instated as a main character had given some result.

Well, I was in for a big dissapointment, wasn't I?

Fortunately, I was warned by some friends in the US who had watched the episode what to expect when the epsisode was aired where I live about half a year after it had been aired in the US.

But it was still a shock to watch that horrible, insulting crap. Only sheer greed (TV:s are expensive) and some concern for the people on the street below prevented me from throwing out the TV from the window that day.

I also saw, and still see it as a downright insult from those in charge against those who have started the letter campaign and us who participated in it. That episode was the reply we got from Berman and his gang.

As for your questions about certain things in the episode, well the episode is so full of contradictions that it looks like it have been written by someone who haven't watched a single episode of the series.

I must also say that I don't care at all about the visual effects which Braga and Fuller came up with. I prefer good written stories instead of effects.

The whole episode was an insulting piece of crap. The worst episode ever in any TV series.

Tracy Trek wrote:

No, I haven't.
And honestly, I don't think I will either since there are too much reference to the insulting crap episode in it.

I think that the only who could help the Ocampa are Tanis and the people at Suspiria's array.

It seems like you have some anger issues. Wanting to destroy things over something fictional on tv is an extreme over reaction.

 

[Lynx]

Another deranged screed. If you're moved to defenestrate a TV because of something you just watched, then I suggest your anger management issues need...managing. I say that in recognition of the fact that Kes in Fury returned to Voyager with clear mental health issues. It's really unfortunate that you choose to interpret her actions as evil, when they were clearly the product of chronic mental illness.

It's especially unfortunate because Jennifer Lien would later suffer similar ailments. Do you think Lien is evil for vandalising a cop car or exposing herself to her neighbours? Or do you think she's in desperate need of the kind of help Janeway gave Kes in Fury?

Or, do you think Jennifer Lien is also 'Suspiria in disguise'? I think it's very disappointing that someone who professes to love Jennifer Lien would be so zealous in attributing her actions to evil.

I like Fury a lot, because it speaks to me on that level as a Trekkian meditation on mental health issues. I like it for the same reason I liked Extreme Risk. Fury, however, had the added bonus of Kes returning to the fold. That it was a production of stunning quality is a secondary issue.

But yeah I know how it goes. From my Lynx auto-reply script:

- You're insulted
- You're offended
- It was offensive
- How dare they
- Who do they think they are?
- You make up fairy stories in my head so you can live with it
- You're insulted
- You're offended
- It was insulting
- It was offensive

What you're constanly doing is called harassment and it's starting to annoy me. I have no intentions to discuss this issue with you, in fact I have no intention tio discuss anything with you.

 

[Lynx]

It seems like you have some anger issues. Wanting to destroy things over something fictional on tv is an extreme over reaction.

Maybe I've spent too much time with certain people on a forum?

 

[fireproof78]

It seems like you have some anger issues. Wanting to destroy things over something fictional on tv is an extreme over reaction.

As opposed to the reactions individuals have over sports teams winning or losing?

 

[Sophie74656]

Maybe I've spent too much time with certain people on a forum?

If something anonymous strangers are posting on a message board about a tv show that has been off the air for more than a decade is affecting you so strongly that's not healthy either.

 

[Sophie74656]

As opposed to the reactions individuals have over sports teams winning or losing?

I don't understand that either

 

[fireproof78]

I don't understand that either

But, the point stands that it does happen. Individuals have emotional reactions over different things, from TV shows (MASH's finale) to sports teams.

Perhaps judging an individual's mental state from posting on a BBS is in poor taste.

 

[Lynx]

But, the point stands that it does happen. Individuals have emotional reactions over different things, from TV shows (MASH's finale) to sports teams.

Perhaps judging an individual's mental state from posting on a BBS is in poor taste.

Especially when there is a constant pecking going on.

 

[fireproof78]

Especially when there is a constant pecking going on.

Well, not everything should be taken as personal pecking either. Different individuals like different things. It would be rather boring if we all had the same opinion on everything.

 

[Sophie74656]

But, the point stands that it does happen. Individuals have emotional reactions over different things, from TV shows (MASH's finale) to sports teams.

Perhaps judging an individual's mental state from posting on a BBS is in poor taste.

I would certainly think that anyone who would seriously want to throw a tv out of their windows over an episode of a fictional tv show might be in need of some anger management.

 

[Sophie74656]

Especially when there is a constant pecking going on.

Disagreeing is not "pecking". You take everything personally. Liking Fury or disliking Kes has NOTHING to do with you

 

[fireproof78]

I would certainly think that anyone who would seriously want to throw a tv out of their windows over an episode of a fictional tv show might be in need of some anger management.

Possibly, but that isn't for any of us to decide, nor is it beneficial to any discussion to call anybody's mental health in to question.

 

[Sophie74656]

Possibly, but that isn't for any of us to decide, nor is it beneficial to any discussion to call anybody's mental health in to question.

I'm not saying anything about mental health. Anger management is not the same thing