Do people still believe in Hell?

[Locutus of Bored]

So if your mom dies tomorrow she's going to hell and you think this system is fine?

That's awful.

Please don't be mean about my Mother. I love her.

I shouldn't have introduced my Mother's experience into the forum. It was something personal but our family is raw at the loss of my Brother and it was just something spiritual or a brain reaction that happened to her. I thought it meant something in relation to what Jason was talking about regards the afterlife. It is my fault for introducing her into this. That being said I have my beliefs and sacrificing them is not going to change the way I believe things are. Calling one to task about it achieves.. nothing.

I do pray for my Mother as a non-believer, she would mock me for it, but I do anyway. I'm just astounded that someone would use her to score points against me in an argument.

She wasn't trying to use her to "score points" against you. She was using a personal example that you brought up to try and get you to think outside your preconceptions and empathize with others whom your religious beliefs have casually condemned to Hell for no crime other than non-belief. Some people are unfortunately incapable of empathy until a situation directly affects them; see Dick Cheney and how his position on same-sex marriage evolved once his daughter, an openly gay woman, got married to her partner.

Doesn't it bother you that an all-knowing God who is privy to all the details of a person's life could not understand and sympathize with the reasons they personally didn't have faith and see fit to forgive them their ignorance? Doesn't it bother you that in knowing why one has decided to be a non-believer, God would still be so petty and vindictive as to condemn that person to eternal suffering and torment for no other crime than simply lacking sufficient evidence or motivation to believe in Him? Is God so small that the ignorance of one disbeliever aggrieves Him so much He would banish them to infinite mental and physical torture? If so, why is that God worthy of my worship? A God like that is nothing more than a tyrannical bully who thrives on inspiring fear and lacks any trace of compassion and forgiveness. I would rather burn in Hell than choose to live my life praying to such an ugly and malignant God.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

If you believe in God you believe he loves us. Love like faith is more than just a feeling.

Let me introduce you to the concepts of Maltheism and Misotheism

IF I believed in a Traditional God, I'd have to be one of these.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

On the other hand, it seems perfectly reasonable to me to conclude that God exists... and does NOT care about us as individuals or who we sleep with or what crimes we do. Because that fits the facts of existence. But that's not a God that would be worth worshipping - and indeed, it wouldn't be interested in that.

 

[Unicron]

There isn't anyway, because it's all an assumption. As long as there is no evidence to support the existence of a god, then god can be a woman who is a ninja enthusiast living in Cleveland, who only appears when she, or any aspect of her, is not observed. You would have just as much evidence as any Abrahamic religion. If I said God was a mighty unicorn who transcends space-time and exists outside of the universe, you couldn't prove me wrong. Again, I would have just as much evidence as Christianity, Islam, or Judaism, would have in proving the existence of their god. So you could ask this question all day, until the end of the week, the year, the decade, the century, your lifespan, humanity's existence, until the Sun went cold and dead in space, and until space itself went cold and endlessly dark, and until you get an answer, it's all wool gathering because there isn't a single shred of evidence that the being of which you speak actually exists.

I admit, I might worship a female ninja god in Cleveland.

 

[fireproof78]

She wasn't trying to use her to "score points" against you. She was using a personal example that you brought up to try and get you to think outside your preconceptions and empathize with others whom your religious beliefs have casually condemned to Hell for no crime other than non-belief. Some people are unfortunately incapable of empathy until a situation directly affects them; see Dick Cheney and how his position on same-sex marriage evolved once his daughter, an openly gay woman, got married to her partner.

Doesn't it bother you that an all-knowing God who is privy to all the details of a person's life could not understand and sympathize with the reasons they personally didn't have faith and see fit to forgive them their ignorance? Doesn't it bother you that in knowing why one has decided to be a non-believer, God would still be so petty and vindictive as to condemn that person to eternal suffering and torment for no other crime than simply lacking sufficient evidence or motivation to believe in Him? Is God so small that the ignorance of one disbeliever aggrieves Him so much He would banish them to infinite mental and physical torture? If so, why is that God worthy of my worship? A God like that is nothing more than a tyrannical bully who thrives on inspiring fear and lacks any trace of compassion and forgiveness. I would rather burn in Hell than choose to live my life praying to such an ugly and malignant God.

I appreciate the sharing of this point of view. Very illuminating.

 

[wew]

As others have stated, yet people still believe in hell. I do. However, even within the Evangelical movement, there is a percentage of believers who have shifted their beliefs away from doctrinal standards.

 

[Refuge]

She wasn't trying to use her to "score points" against you. She was using a personal example that you brought up to try and get you to think outside your preconceptions and empathize with others whom your religious beliefs have casually condemned to Hell for no crime other than non-belief. Some people are unfortunately incapable of empathy until a situation directly affects them; see Dick Cheney and how his position on same-sex marriage evolved once his daughter, an openly gay woman, got married to her partner.

Doesn't it bother you that an all-knowing God who is privy to all the details of a person's life could not understand and sympathize with the reasons they personally didn't have faith and see fit to forgive them their ignorance? Doesn't it bother you that in knowing why one has decided to be a non-believer, God would still be so petty and vindictive as to condemn that person to eternal suffering and torment for no other crime than simply lacking sufficient evidence or motivation to believe in Him? Is God so small that the ignorance of one disbeliever aggrieves Him so much He would banish them to infinite mental and physical torture? If so, why is that God worthy of my worship? A God like that is nothing more than a tyrannical bully who thrives on inspiring fear and lacks any trace of compassion and forgiveness. I would rather burn in Hell than choose to live my life praying to such an ugly and malignant God.

I already acknowledged I introduced my Mother into the conversation and regretted it. It was to illustrate an experience she had but not to have her illustrated as dying or going to Hell. Someone else did that.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As a Christian, I do struggle with the question of why God would allow a place like Hell to exist. That's an entirely valid point. I can't be afraid of that question being asked - no one should.

The best response that I can come up with is this: I think that Hell is intended as a place of punishment for the truly evil - the monsters, terrorists, killers, etc. It's not simply for those who don't believe as I do - that would be dismissive and cruel.

I think that God will find ways to work in everyone's lives. Even for those who don't believe in God - He believes in them too. (Much apologizings if this sounds like a cliché, because it's definitely not intended as one. But it's as honest as I know how to be, right now.)

 

[Balok's Decoy]

She wasn't trying to use her to "score points" against you. She was using a personal example that you brought up to try and get you to think outside your preconceptions and empathize with others whom your religious beliefs have casually condemned to Hell for no crime other than non-belief. Some people are unfortunately incapable of empathy until a situation directly affects them; see Dick Cheney and how his position on same-sex marriage evolved once his daughter, an openly gay woman, got married to her partner.

Doesn't it bother you that an all-knowing God who is privy to all the details of a person's life could not understand and sympathize with the reasons they personally didn't have faith and see fit to forgive them their ignorance? Doesn't it bother you that in knowing why one has decided to be a non-believer, God would still be so petty and vindictive as to condemn that person to eternal suffering and torment for no other crime than simply lacking sufficient evidence or motivation to believe in Him? Is God so small that the ignorance of one disbeliever aggrieves Him so much He would banish them to infinite mental and physical torture? If so, why is that God worthy of my worship? A God like that is nothing more than a tyrannical bully who thrives on inspiring fear and lacks any trace of compassion and forgiveness. I would rather burn in Hell than choose to live my life praying to such an ugly and malignant God.

This kind of thing is why I identify more with Satan (or Lucifer, what-have-you), than I do with God or Jesus, etc. If there's one thing I really took away from Genesis, it's that Satan doesn't bullshit you. He told Adam and Eve the truth, Adam and Eve took the information he gave them and made an independent decision about their own lives, and God got pissed off about it.

I particularly like the Miltonian Satan: "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." Right on. Hell would be an eternity worshiping a narcissistic God who's so sensitive about people merely believing in his existence and doesn't have a cosmic-scale level of compassion or understanding for even those who are immoral or evil, which one would expect from an immortal, omniscient being.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

In my understanding the eternal burning forever hell isn't something believed by Jews of any stripe, though there are kinds of places you can go to and get fixed or something after you die. But it seems like the whole Hell deal as we know it is a christian thing which is kinda bizarre? Like here's Jesus, he's more chill and kind than the OT God but hey guys we also got HELL!

I don't know why many Christians feel they have to believe in it when it makes no sense as far as the whole God is Love deal goes and is insanely cruel?

 

[Amaris]

I admit, I might worship a female ninja god in Cleveland.

Who wouldn't?!

As a Christian, I do struggle with the question of why God would allow a place like Hell to exist. That's an entirely valid point. I can't be afraid of that question being asked - no one should.

The best response that I can come up with is this: I think that Hell is intended as a place of punishment for the truly evil - the monsters, terrorists, killers, etc. It's not simply for those who don't believe as I do - that would be dismissive and cruel.

I think that God will find ways to work in everyone's lives. Even for those who don't believe in God - He believes in them too. (Much apologizings if this sounds like a cliché, because it's definitely not intended as one. But it's as honest as I know how to be, right now.)

You sound like me when I was 23.

This kind of thing is why I identify more with Satan (or Lucifer, what-have-you), than I do with God or Jesus, etc. If there's one thing I really took away from Genesis, it's that Satan doesn't bullshit you. He told Adam and Eve the truth, Adam and Eve took the information he gave them and made an independent decision about their own lives, and God got pissed off about it.

I particularly like the Miltonian Satan: "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." Right on. Hell would be an eternity worshiping a narcissistic God who's so sensitive about people merely believing in his existence and doesn't have a cosmic-scale level of compassion or understanding for even those who are immoral or evil, which one would expect from an immortal, omniscient being.

Indeed. From the stories, it looks more like Lucifer is championing man to become something greater than what his creator intended, even as his creator cracks down on him for the most inane of offenses. People point to Lucifer tempting Adam and Eve in the garden, but in all honesty, God tempted them. He put the tree there and said "do not eat or you will surely die." These are people who have no concept of death, because they're essentially immortal. It would have been like saying "Don't touch this can of beans, or flivium flugum niptchal."

Lucifer points out that if they eat it, they're not going to die. I mean, seriously? God just created them, claims they're good. So they eat of the fruit, and God goes Keystone Cops on them. So if Lucifer considers God to be a dick, he's definitely going to pull for them, because he knows they can also be gods, at least according to God himself who was worried that if they would have eaten from the Tree of Life instead, they would have become gods.

 

[Refuge]

I don't understand why non-believers care. It's irrelevant to them and they come across as hypocrites judging believers for judging. It's weird. You don't believe in Hell but want to use the concept to condemn somone else. There's a meanness there.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

This kind of thing is why I identify more with Satan (or Lucifer, what-have-you), than I do with God or Jesus, etc. If there's one thing I really took away from Genesis, it's that Satan doesn't bullshit you. He told Adam and Eve the truth, Adam and Eve took the information he gave them and made an independent decision about their own lives, and God got pissed off about it.

Actually it's Satan who's the bullshit artist. He is the father of lies. Even when he tells the truth, it's still a lie, because he is a trickster.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Actually it's Satan who's the bullshit artist. He is the father of lies. Even when he tells the truth, it's still a lie, because he is a trickster.

He has a lot more fun though!

Seriously though, as someone who used to be a theistic satanist, the traditional christian satanic conception doesn't mean a whole lot to me. It's a cartoon.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You sound like me when I was 23.

Um....ew?

 

[Manticore]

I don't understand why non-believers care. It's irrelevant to them and they come across as hypocrites judging believers for judging. It's weird. You don't believe in Hell but want to use the concept to condemn somone else. There's a meanness there.

Because people use "you're going to hell" as justification for banning gay marriage, or trans women going into bathrooms, or interracial marriage, etc.

 

[Amaris]

I don't understand why non-believers care. It's irrelevant to them and they come across as hypocrites judging believers for judging. It's weird. You don't believe in Hell but want to use the concept to condemn somone else. There's a meanness there.

People have already responded to you, myself included, taking great care to explain why it affects them. You are pushing too hard, and it's noticeable.

Um....ew?

Get your mind out of the gutter!

What I mean is that your post indicates roughly the same theological stance I had when I was 23 years old. It was around that time that I dropped the belief that hell was a place for anyone who wasn't in lockstep with the Evangelical understanding of Christianity. I had fought the notion in my late teens, but it just kept coming back and bugging me. My ethics were nipping at me, that something about that piece of theology was wrong somehow.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It was around that time that I dropped the belief that hell was a place for anyone who wasn't in lockstep with the Evangelical understanding of Christianity.

And just in case I wasn't clear enough with my last post, that is not my belief. Just sayin'.

(Besides, I'm Lutheran. I'm not sure we even count as evangelicals, in the strictest sense.)

I do not believe that anyone here is going to Hell. Like I said, Hell is a place of punishment for the REAL evil. And that is not what I see here.

 

[Refuge]

People have already responded to you, myself included, taking great care to explain why it affects them. You are pushing too hard..


.

That is ironic coming from all the screens of pushing you've supplied.. pages of it.

 

[Refuge]

He has a lot more fun though!

Seriously though, as someone who used to be a theistic satanist, the traditional christian satanic conception doesn't mean a whole lot to me. It's a cartoon.

Were you really a satanist?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

That is ironic coming from all the screens of pushing you've supplied.. pages of it.

Please don't go there. @Coloratura and I may not agree on much, but he has never been pushy.