But the same God created the whole universe, other galaxies, planets and stars. Did he create or love any other beings in the universe, or just us? There'd be no way to know for sure.
Do people still believe in Hell?
- Thread starter Jayson1
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But the same God created the whole universe, other galaxies, planets and stars. Did he create or love any other beings in the universe, or just us? There'd be no way to know for sure.
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Amaris
Guest
There isn't anyway, because it's all an assumption. As long as there is no evidence to support the existence of a god, then god can be a woman who is a ninja enthusiast living in Cleveland, who only appears when she, or any aspect of her, is not observed. You would have just as much evidence as any Abrahamic religion. If I said God was a mighty unicorn who transcends space-time and exists outside of the universe, you couldn't prove me wrong. Again, I would have just as much evidence as Christianity, Islam, or Judaism, would have in proving the existence of their god. So you could ask this question all day, until the end of the week, the year, the decade, the century, your lifespan, humanity's existence, until the Sun went cold and dead in space, and until space itself went cold and endlessly dark, and until you get an answer, it's all wool gathering because there isn't a single shred of evidence that the being of which you speak actually exists.
How do we know a God would even have emotions to feel love? That is one of the biggest issue's I have with organized religion. They make God out to be to human. I like to think of God,shoud he/she be real, being more like a evolved computer. Self Aware but thinks in ways we can't comprehend. I actually fear the idea of a God with emotions because emotions can lead to bad things and do we really want someone with powers beyond comprehension being subjected to other emotions like anger or ego?
Jason
Do you think.. we need to know everything? Maybe we do. Or maybe we can never.
I've wondered if we might be.. it. A lot of people believe there are more sophisticated, advanced species in the Universe, that we are not alone. Well out of all these potential species one species has to be the most advanced.. What if it is actually us? What an anti-climax, but why haven't these other ones found us yet?
I've wondered if we might be.. it. A lot of people believe there are more sophisticated, advanced species in the Universe, that we are not alone. Well out of all these potential species one species has to be the most advanced.. What if it is actually us? What an anti-climax, but why haven't these other ones found us yet?
For me what I think gives the concept of a God seem possible is that we already accept something that is equally powerful as a God with the concept of Infinity. Something with no begining and no ending and is everywhere sounds like a God to me. Only thing missing is the idea of it being self aware. PLus it is something that happens outside of the universe, unless you believe nothing was around before the universe was formed but that also feels to operate on the almost magically concept of God or Infinity.
PLus I don't easily dismiss near death experiences as fast as others, though it does go against my idea in that I don't really see a purpose to a afterlife.
To me these are things that make we agnostic instead of a aithest. Well that and like I said above I think we have unnoticed motivations to our beliefs so things like fear of death might factor into it, along with the fact that I have a hard time making decesions because I doubt everything I think because I don't understand myself a great deal thus I don't always trust myself.
Jason
Well I don't have a vision of God but there is that whole in his image creation that Adam was and us females got stuck with the rib. To me that is more symbolic than literal, but by equating a 'human' identity or form we can relate to what we might call emotion or Love. I don't believe there is a great big invisible 'man' out there. More a presence everywhere and throughout.
Hadn't thought of a computer concept.
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Amaris
Guest
Space is big. Even if we stick to our galactic neighborhood, you're talking a hundred thousand light years from one side to the other. Radio signals move at the speed of light, so that means in the past 80 years since a strong enough signal could leap out into space, the first signal has traveled about 80 light years. 80 light years out of 100,000 light years is 0.08% (someone feel free to check my math). This means that it will take 1,000 years for that signal to travel 1,000 light years. That's here, in our galaxy.
The nearest galaxy to our own is the M31 "Andromeda" galaxy. It is approximately 2,500,000 light years away. Space is big.
So yeah, even if there's a civilization in our galaxy, they could be on the other side of it, which is a nice little 75,000 to 100,000 year journey before the signal would reach them, let alone wait for their response, which would be another 75,000 to 100,000 year trip. It would be the galaxy's fastest AOL connection, but also impractical as a method for communication. Hell, let's drop them 10,000 light years away. If we look at recent human history, you would receive a 10,000 light year distant signal today, if it was sent to us shortly after the end of the Ice Age. 10,000 light years isn't even a drop in the bucket in looking at the size of the universe and its 92+ billion light years.
So, you know, space is big.
What has no beginning and no end? Even the universe has a beginning and end. Time has a beginning and end. All things begin and end.
I don't dismiss that people believe they've had visions, or near death experiences. What I doubt is that it actually happened, in any form, outside of the brain. Everything that makes it possible for us to perceive what goes on around us is in those 3 lbs of gray matter. When something goes wonky, our perceptions can go skewed right along with it. I am an atheist. I do not believe, based on the current level of evidence given, that there is a god, or gods, though I keep my mind open to the possibility that I am wrong. That said, I have found no evidence to support any of the world's religions in their claims. As far as I'm concerned, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, and all the other isms, anities, and such are myths.
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But, Hell?
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Amaris
Guest
He loves you so much, he'll let you die in eternal torturous agony if you don't love him back, and in exactly the way he tells you to love him.
Does infinite have an end?
Yes I can relate to space and our limitations or advancements not being able to bridge distances. I just wonder if it is possible we are meant to be the pioneers to find any other.. one day. Part of me thinks it is strange no other species has not knocked on our door. Maybe we ARE the most advanced?
My Mother is Atheist, still is, but she can't explain feeling my brother's presence some weeks after he died. She said it was the same after her Mother died. Not talking about a personal near death experience but a visitation. I've even tried to come up with Atheist explanations. It was grief, it was wanting him back, you were tired but she said there was a presence, an odour. I reckon it was a visitation. A goodbye of sorts.
Yes I can relate to space and our limitations or advancements not being able to bridge distances. I just wonder if it is possible we are meant to be the pioneers to find any other.. one day. Part of me thinks it is strange no other species has not knocked on our door. Maybe we ARE the most advanced?
My Mother is Atheist, still is, but she can't explain feeling my brother's presence some weeks after he died. She said it was the same after her Mother died. Not talking about a personal near death experience but a visitation. I've even tried to come up with Atheist explanations. It was grief, it was wanting him back, you were tired but she said there was a presence, an odour. I reckon it was a visitation. A goodbye of sorts.
There are 12 step programs to deal with that kind of relationship.
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Guest
It was her brain wishing to experience him being alive again, and is a perfectly understandable grief reaction. It has also been simulated by neuroloscientists studying the human brain and nervous system.
Indeed.
We have free will and salvation. And really if you don't love Him back then you don't believe and you have nothing to fear. Everyone wins.
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Amaris
Guest
That's a copout. It's not free will if one option leads to eternal punishment, but no evidence for either option is given in order for you to make an informed decision.
I disagree with you there, more so because my Mother went through a range of grief and pain and she knows that it was different. She hasn't become religious, but she can't deny there was something. I believe and he never visited me. I wish he had.
I don't think it is a cop out. It is an extremely important part of free will that you get to choose to believe or not.
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Guest
With all due respect to your mother and her situation, she can "know" all she wishes, but that doesn't make it true.
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Amaris
Guest
It is a copout. It's not free will when you have a gun to your head and told to pick the right option, without knowing which option is the right one, and worse, the right option differs depending upon who is holding the gun. That's not free will, that's Russian Roulette mixed with extortion.
I won't argue with anyone's personal experience of a dead loved one but at this point in my life I think it's a projection of the brain, yeah. Brain chem can do sooo many things, just look at the whacked out realities people swear they existed in taking certain hallucingenics. It's not the drug that gives them those realities, it's what the drug does to the brain, the brain itself does it. I know I've had some intense experiences after someone died that I think was my brain just LIT UP and focussed on that person.
That said I don't know if I had a severe grief and had such an experience if I would be willing to see it this way. Maybe I'd feel like there was more to it.
That said I don't know if I had a severe grief and had such an experience if I would be willing to see it this way. Maybe I'd feel like there was more to it.
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