Command structure on Voyager

[Tracy Trek]

As well as being the tactical/security chief, Tuvok was third in command of Voyager. Who would be after that? Although I can't recall him being mentioned after the pilot, but would it be Rollins? He was in Starfleet, he was a Lt. and it wasn't a provisional rank.

 

[Sophie74656]

After Tuvok then Tom is next in line. This was mentioned in Unimatriz Zero

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

After Tuvok then Tom is next in line. This was mentioned in Unimatriz Zero

Even if Tom Paris was officially 3rd in command (after Janeway and Tuvok -> Chakotay with his temporary rank & position, even if he is entirely capable to lead a vessel and its crew as he already did on the Val Jean, is unselectable*), I don't see him having discipline to become First Officer and still less Captain. Don't get me wrong, I don't say that he isn't serious and / or involved in what he does. He was. But, I don't think that he ever feels comfortable to the idea of ensuring any command.

* Let's imagine the head of high ranked people in Starfleet Command if Voyager (and its crew) came back home with a (ex)Maquis leader in command and a Starfleet officer to assist him. It would be just unimaginable.

 

[Sophie74656]

I think he could handle the responsibilities, but I think he would always rather be flying the ship.

Spoiler for novels.....


In the new novels Tom is the official first officer on Voyager and has settled into the role very well.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

I think he could handle the responsibilities, but I think he would always rather be flying the ship.

Spoiler for novels.....
In the new novels Tom is the official first officer on Voyager and has settled into the role very well.

Yes, I know that (and that Chakotay would be not only pardoned but rehabilitated and promoted as the captain of Voyager with Janeway's consent) but, if I remember well, the novels are non-canon. aren't they?!
And from what I read (Taylor's novels, Mosaic & Pathways, which were a source for the series & which drew a portrait of each main characters known) and saw
the evolutuon of these same characters through 7 years, in particular the various changes that have occurred after Taylor left her position of producer (cf from s4). I tend to disagree with post-Voyager novels.
(If CBS/Paramout decided to make a post-Voyager/Nemesis series - hey, we can always dream! - and IF some "data" about main characters (including Seven & the Doctor) were retaken from various post Voyager novels, I'd valid them, no questions asked.
However, before being accused to prevent others to dream again , I specify that if other Voyager fans enjoy what they read in Voyager novels, it's good too!

And getting back to Tom Paris, it was quite clear, in Taylor's books, that he joined Starfleet under pressure from his father (who was already a senior officer), in order to follow the family tradition. I don't say that he never really appreciate his involvment, since it allowed him to live his piloting passion but through the series, it became became equally clear that he was just as good at entertaining creating programs. I guess that since he gave up his maverick life, one of the various priorities which changed with the arrival of B'Elena in his life and later, the one of little Miral, he aspires now to nothing less than a peaceful life. So, I would rather see him joining his three passions, in creating piloting programs for Starfleet cadets, while making him available for his family (with maybe a new arrival in the family). Alright, it would be maybe a little boring in some ways but so much safe. Same for B'Elena but in her areas of expertise (engineering). That being say, this does not prevent them to answer a call from their Voyager family, if they are needed (and to assume the role of First Officer if requested)

 

[danellis]

Wasn't it usually Kim who who took command whenever the top three were off the ship?

dJE

 

[Refuge]

Had the same thought about the command structure while watching Resolutions. It occurred to me that there is the Big Three. With Janeway and Chakotay on the planet Tuvok fitted nicely as acting Captain and did remark to the crew about what it was like to have the responsibility and burden of command... something like that .. resting on your shoulders. It was like there is a huge gap between the top three and the lower ranked and experienced crew. Tom has his place but he is still a little lacking in what is needed. B'Ellana is not cool headed enough. Harry has aspirations but yet to be realized.

Of course the Doctor plays a part later on.. another topic. I personally think Neelix has a place here. Yes he is not Federation but he was pretty capable.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Wasn't it usually Kim who who took command whenever the top three were off the ship? dJE

I don't remember that, but I can be wrong.
However, I remember to have seen at least twice times, Harry Kim telling to some other crew members met in corridors or in the mess, especially during a crisis situation, what to do or where to go. I guess that as someone sitting in meetings of senior officers, this temporary situation gave him a certain power ‎in the eyes of his colleagues, including Lieutenants (but he is nonetheless an Enseign and if a Starfleet ranked officer of the Equinox, ordered to do this or that, he should have to submit, well that before they were sidelined, of course!) AND several other times, Harry Kim sitting in the captain's chair during overnight shifts, as the most experienced officer at this time (as we saw some others Enseignes and Lieutenants holding the same role during the run of 7 years), to ensure the watchtower but at any difficulty, he called immediately one of the command structure (Janeway, Chakotay or Tuvok) and even the three in case of red alert.

In brief, maybe Harry regularly attends the senior officers meetings but that doesn't confer him the right to be considered as an actor of the command structure. ‎And then, let's be honest, there is all-in itself, little chance that Voyager lose in the same time, Janeway, (Chakotay), Tuvok and Paris. And if it had to happen, there would still be the ECH, as seeing as Janeway validated the idea.

 

[Sophie74656]

In regards to Harry...he would be next after Tom i believe, and then b'elanna. Harry has some seniority as a department head and a bridge officer. For example if harry and a few non bridge officers were in the mess hall and there was an emergency then Harry would take charge even if there was a lieutenant there. We saw this happen in an episode I just can't remember which one off the top of my head.

Also in Tsunkatse we saw Chakotay leaving B'Elanna in command on the bridge and i think she was acting as first officer in some scenes

 

[Tracy Trek]

We saw this happen in an episode I just can't remember which one off the top of my head.

Was it The Haunting of Deck 12? When he told everyone in the mess hall to to return to their posts and told Neelix to stay where he was until it was found out what was happening. And there was tension between Harry and the Dr. about who was in charge during Workforce.

 

[PicardSpeedo]

I've never understood how Tuvok managed to get a third-in-line position on Voyager, let alone the role of security chief. He seemed to have a major psychotic episode at least once a season, and, when he wasn't writhing around on the floor of the bridge with his head in his hands, he was doing weird mind experiments in his quarters. Not exactly the model of a dude I'd want to have in charge of all of my photon torpedoes, to say nothing of the letting a total psychopath command the entire ship.

 

[Sophie74656]

I've never understood how Tuvok managed to get a third-in-line position on Voyager, let alone the role of security chief. He seemed to have a major psychotic episode at least once a season, and, when he wasn't writhing around on the floor of the bridge with his head in his hands, he was doing weird mind experiments in his quarters. Not exactly the model of a dude I'd want to have in charge of all of my photon torpedoes, let alone commanding the entire ship.

So...once he took on Suder's personality and once he was hypnotized by the bajoran guy. He did have issues in Riddles but that was hardly a "psychotic episode".
Care to provide more examples?

 

[Silvercrest]

I've never understood how Tuvok managed to get a third-in-line position on Voyager, let alone the role of security chief. He seemed to have a major psychotic episode at least once a season, and, when he wasn't writhing around on the floor of the bridge with his head in his hands, he was doing weird mind experiments in his quarters. Not exactly the model of a dude I'd want to have in charge of all of my photon torpedoes, to say nothing of the letting a total psychopath command the entire ship.

He got the position before they figured this out about him. Afterward everyone was too afraid of him to interfere.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

I have a question: what sort of structure command are we talking about? The one in force aboard Voyager or the one in force on a Starfleet vessel ‎sailing in a normal situation?

- If we are talking about Voyager's command structure, everything is possible, including given the most important positions to Maquis rebels (Chakotay as First Officer, B'Elena Torres as Chief Engineer, Allaya as Tuvok's deputy for the Security) even if some of them were experienced former Starfleet officers ; entrusted with important responsibilities, a blue like Harry Kim, who was just ‎out of the academy and of course, granted a hologram the ability to ensure control of the vessel as ECH.
-> we know that Janeway's structure command was unconventional (and risked because of possible mutinies during the journey) but Gods were on Janeway's side since it worked smoothly. However, I'm not sure that this command structure would have kept functionning if it had happened something to her = I guess the Starfleet crew would request to be commanded by a captain appointed from their rank.

As for Harry taking command of Voyager, he is still too young and too inexperienced to become captain and besides, the both times where he was "in charge" of a vessel (Workforce & Nightingale), convinced me that he wasn't ready YET, not so much by his actions but rather by his management technique (authoritarian attitude, ‎refusal to delegate when necessary and to follow recommendations, ... ).

- If we are talking about the command structure in classic environment, it is clear that Janeway's ‎unconventional decisions would have been dispelled quickly by the HQ, under the pretext that it didn't not respect the protocol and that it put in risk the crew.
-> I guess that if Janeway ‎hadn't been in capacity to assure her captaincy, Tuvok would have naturally assumed the function, as 2nd in command, until a new capitain is appointed by Starfleet and sends on board ‎as soon as possible. To Tuvok, the care to brief the new captain.

 

[Tracy Trek]

I have a question: what sort of structure command are we talking about? The one in force aboard Voyager or the one in force on a Starfleet vessel ‎sailing in a normal situation?

The one in force on Voyager.

However, if Janeway hadn't put more of the Maquis in key positions, who do you think would have been next in line? The reason I mentioned Rollins is he was regular Starfleet, he was a Lt. and he survived the Caretaker abduction.

I suspected that Ayala was Tuvok's deputy. From what we saw in Shattered, he had a deputy named Andrews. But we don't know if he survived the Caretaker abduction or if Ayala was put in over him. If it was the second one, that would be similar to what happened in engineering with Torres and Carey.

I think I asked this another thread, but I can't recall if anyone answered. Who would have been Torres' second after Carey's death?

 

[Paradise City]

If the top few got massacred, it would fall then fall to the Delaney twins who would have to do an Amok Time style duel to death to decide which one of the two would win the captain's chair.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

If the top few got massacred, it would fall then fall to the Delaney twins who would have to do an Amok Time style duel to death to decide which one of the two would win the captain's chair.

. Na, they would have flipped a coin!

 

[Sophie74656]

If the top few got massacred, it would fall then fall to the Delaney twins who would have to do an Amok Time style duel to death to decide which one of the two would win the captain's chair.

Without Carey its hard to say since we didn't find out too much of the engineering staff. My first thought would be Vorik.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

The one in force on Voyager.
However, if Janeway hadn't put more of the Maquis in key positions, who do you think would have been next in line? The reason I mentioned Rollins is he was regular Starfleet, he was a Lt. and he survived the Caretaker abduction.

Alright, I understand why Janeway decided to appoint some Maquis rebels on key positions. It was a strategic move but, let's be honest, she took quite a risk in entrusting someone she barely knew, the position of 2nd in command (someone likely to replace her in case of real or supposed unavailability). Same for B'Elena (
engineering) and Alaya (security), who were in a position to inhibit the proper functioning of the Voyager especially because they were already known to be effective in their respective fields, by Chakotay.

And about the question "who do I think would have been next in line?", I'd say that I'm pretty sure that on more than 120-130 crew members of Starfleet - after the Kazon attack & Caretaker -, don't tell me that on this number, some weren't as smart and competent to take an important role aboard. You just have to encourage them, like Janeway did regularly with Harry, Tom and Seven (Mortimer Harren, William Telfer and even Tal Celes, in Good Shepherd),

I think I asked this another thread, but I can't recall if anyone answered. Who would have been Torres' second after Carey's death?

I'd say, Marla Gilmore, who is quite competent in this area, as seeing as she acted as chief engineer on Equinox. It would be a rational choice ... and Mortimer Harren or William Telfer could be her deputy, like Carey was for Torres.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Oh, I forgot to quote Vorik, as Garla's deputy..