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Bryan Fuller: Diversity is key

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From the people I've spoken to, it's normally the specific surgery rather than the whole transition.

For some reason everything's always about genitals...

It's probably because that part is more easily understandable. Understanding transgender identities on the other hand is more complicated because a, identities are always complex, b, people lack empathy, and c, I honestly forgot was c was but I know I had three points.
 
From the people I've spoken to, it's normally the specific surgery rather than the whole transition.

For some reason everything's always about genitals...
Trans people are generally reduced to nothing but our genitals. Just as a tip, never ask a trans person about their genitals or what surgeries they have had or will have. It's insulting because people generally aren't interested in cis people's genitals enough to bring them up in conversation.

It's probably because that part is more easily understandable. Understanding transgender identities on the other hand is more complicated because a, identities are always complex, b, people lack empathy, and c, I honestly forgot was c was but I know I had three points.
In popular media, mainly documentaries, it's treated as the end goal of sorts and generally the documentaries are entirely devoted to the surgery itself. I've seen a drinking game for these documentaries and news stories. If you see a trans woman putting on makeup, you take a drink.
 
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Medically speaking, "transgender" are sufferers of a mental disorder called Gender Dysphoria, as, for example, diagnosed by the American Psychiatric Association in Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition. The male and female genetic markers, XY and XX, are an unchanging fact, not a fluid state.

Unfortunately, instead of treating the disorder in children and/or letting them recover until as late as his or her mid-twenties, many "transgender" sufferers are further victimized through ideological, chemical and surgical abuse.

According to statistics, the "transgender" suicide rates in adults have increased even in the most "trans"-accepting countries like Sweden, which indicates that it is not the result of oppression or persecution but of personal conclusions by the victims that something is seriously wrong.

Why would anyone with reason and compassion want to encourage such ideological, chemical and surgical abuse, knowing that it is a mental disorder and that there is a high risk of suicide even in the most "trans"-accepting countries?

Do not misinterpret this as an attack on "transgender" sufferers. On the contrary, knowing the facts, this is to encourage the prevention of gender abuse, as well as the prevention of suicide.

Additionally, there is a strong evidence of hidden agenda with "transgender" propaganda being heavily pushed around the world.

See the following examples:

Tom Brady and Gisele Bundchen - exposed as a secret transgender couple
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Irrefutable proof that Justin Bieber is a woman
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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

And there are many more such examples with celebrities and politicians. Search the internet for "transvestigation".

Finally, the American Statue of Liberty has been identified as sharing the same facial features as the statue of Apollo, a male figure.

It is difficult to attribute all of it to a mere coincidence.

Have a nice day. :)
There's only one person with a mental illness here and it isn't me.
 
There's only one person with a mental illness here and it isn't me.
Can it be me?
A trans woman was never a man.
Man's physical body to a female's physical body, otherwise why need to transition?

And my point stands, if the transition was going to involve major changes to skeleton structure and things like the size of internal organs, a slower transition might be a better idea.

Not have it be a one time procedure.
What psychological transition?
Why do some trans seek psychological counseling? That transition.
Why would you need to show that process?
Well, you wouldn't need to, but depicting it on the show could be a interesting way of exploring the fictional character and that part of their journey through life. Also to see how the transition would be undertaken in the future, both medically and within the society.
No, like black face.
I'll admit to being fine with the character of Boomer in nuBSG being changed from a Black man to a East Asia woman. And the XO changing from a Black man to a White man.

I was fine with Nick Fury (Marvel Comics) being changed from a White man to a Black man. I don't consider that last to being a case of "black face."
That's a different thing. He's not playing Othello in blackface.
The question was "would you hire a white actor to play a black character?" It wasn't about black face, Stewart (a White actor) was hired to play a traditional Black character. My understanding is he did quite well in the role.
Where's a female version of a Quark/Neelix/Phlox character?
Alice Kringe for one, her Borg greasy make up hardly produced a "beauty queen."
 
Medically speaking, "transgender" are sufferers of a mental disorder called Gender Dysphoria, as, for example, diagnosed by the American Psychiatric Association in Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition. The male and female genetic markers, XY and XX, are an unchanging fact, not a fluid state.
You are an insane sack of shit. Why do you keep coming back with this same pack of hateful lies. Every time you return, you'll be condemned and banned. Count on it.
 
I think MadeIndescrible's point is the more important one, but additionally, I don't think a trans character being "passable" is needed to be consistent with in-universe logic. Presumably future technology could similarly give great hair to the bald and slim down the overweight, but we see plenty examples of both. The concerns of Trek-era humans seems to be looking like who they really are, not conforming to an ideal beauty standard for their gender. I mean, we even have omnipotent beings that could assume literally any form at will that are content to appear as schlubby middle aged white men!

That's a valid point. I feel like this is a delicate subject, so I hope I didn't say anything too stupid. When I talk about "passing," perhaps I'm overly fixated on my own idealized vision of the future. I'm not saying I'm transgender, but I am ambivalent enough about my own gender that the thought of living as the opposite sex is not totally unappealing to me, and if I were to do that, I'd personally prefer to be as convincing as possible. But that's just me. I'm also not secure enough to be cool with the thought of losing all my hair either.
 
The question was "would you hire a white actor to play a black character?" It wasn't about black face, Stewart (a White actor) was hired to play a traditional Black character. My understanding is he did quite well in the role.
Context is everything. The entire cast switched as a gimmick/twist on the play. No different than Fascist Richard III. So still not the same thing.
 
Can it be me?
*Backs away slowly

Man's physical body to a female's physical body, otherwise why need to transition?
You're thinking too cis-centric.

And my point stands, if the transition was going to involve major changes to skeleton structure and things like the size of internal organs, a slower transition might be a better idea. Not have it be a one time procedure.
Why do you need to see the transition to understand a character is trans? It's a minor part of their lives. It makes far more sense to just have a trans crewmember who transitioned before the series. We didn't need to see McCoy going to medical school to see that he's a doctor, he just is.

Why do some trans seek psychological counseling? That transition.
Some do, so do some cis people. It's not a requirement.

Well, you wouldn't need to, but depicting it on the show could be a interesting way of exploring the fictional character and that part of their journey through life. Also to see how the transition would be undertaken in the future, both medically and within the society.

A character's childhood would be interesting, but this is Star Trek not Lost.

I'll admit to being fine with the character of Boomer in nuBSG being changed from a Black man to a East Asia woman. And the XO changing from a Black man to a White man.

I was fine with Nick Fury (Marvel Comics) being changed from a White man to a Black man. I don't consider that last to being a case of "black face."The question was "would you hire a white actor to play a black character?" It wasn't about black face, Stewart (a White actor) was hired to play a traditional Black character. My understanding is he did quite well in the role.
They changed the character in those cases, that's different than hiring someone of one group to play a character that's in another group. Boomer in new BSG isn't a black man, she's a woman. The only thing she has in common with the original character is a name. MCU Nick Fury was written from the beginning to be played by Sam Jackson, mainly because Marvel Comics used his likeness as Nick Fury in the Ultimate universe and Jackson okayed it as long as he got to play the character eventually. It's not even the same issue, do you understand the difference? One is changing the character to fit the actor, the other is changing the actor through makeup to fit the role. Because I don't think that you do or you're being intentionally obtuse.

Alice Kringe for one, her Borg greasy make up hardly produced a "beauty queen."
Intentionally obtuse then.

That's a valid point. I feel like this is a delicate subject, so I hope I didn't say anything too stupid. When I talk about "passing," perhaps I'm overly fixated on my own idealized vision of the future. I'm not saying I'm transgender, but I am ambivalent enough about my own gender that the thought of living as the opposite sex is not totally unappealing to me, and if I were to do that, I'd personally prefer to be as convincing as possible. But that's just me. I'm also not secure enough to be cool with the thought of losing all my hair either.
If you ever want to talk, just PM me sometime. I've dealt with gender issues myself.[/QUOTE]
 
I'm going to rip this to pieces before you get banned again.
Medically speaking, "transgender" are sufferers of a mental disorder called Gender Dysphoria, as, for example, diagnosed by the American Psychiatric Association in Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition.
Actually you can be transgender and not have dysphoria. But dysphoria is not a mental illness, it's just discomfort from being seen and treated as your assigned sex and it may extend into discomfort with your body being the sex you were assigned at birth.

The male and female genetic markers, XY and XX, are an unchanging fact, not a fluid state.
Sex and gender aren't the same thing. Also chromosomes don't equal either. There are women who are assigned female at birth who have XY chromosomes, some have actually given birth. Biology is far more fluid than you understand it to be. Anyone who looks at facts will discover this.

Unfortunately, instead of treating the disorder in children and/or letting them recover until as late as his or her mid-twenties, many "transgender" sufferers are further victimized through ideological, chemical and surgical abuse.
The only treatment is transitioning because it never goes away. They aren't victimized by anyone but bigots such as yourself trying to pass off hate and ignorance as compassion and science.

According to statistics, the "transgender" suicide rates in adults have increased even in the most "trans"-accepting countries like Sweden, which indicates that it is not the result of oppression or persecution but of personal conclusions by the victims that something is seriously wrong.
Yeah, that's more bullshit. The actual study has been misrepresented. What it actually found was that medical transition (HRT and surgeries) were not enough due to social oppression and bigotry, like your posts.

Here's a quote from one of the doctors from the actual study.
The aim of trans medical interventions is to bring a trans person’s body more inline with their gender identity, resulting in the measurable diminishment of their gender dysphoria. However trans people as a group also experience significant social oppression in the form of bullying, abuse, rape and hate crimes. Medical transition alone won’t resolve the effects of crushing social oppression: social anxiety, depression and posttraumatic stress.

What we’ve found is that treatment models which ignore the effect of cultural oppression and outright hate aren’t enough. We need to understand that our treatment models must be responsive to not only gender dysphoria, but the effects of anti-trans hate as well. That’s what improved care means.
But don't let facts and context get in the way of your delusions.

Why would anyone with reason and compassion want to encourage such ideological, chemical and surgical abuse, knowing that it is a mental disorder and that there is a high risk of suicide even in the most "trans"-accepting countries?
Because they actually accept facts.

Do not misinterpret this as an attack on "transgender" sufferers. On the contrary, knowing the facts, this is to encourage the prevention of gender abuse, as well as the prevention of suicide.
The only thing I'm suffering from is your pathetic attempts to post bullshit. Are you trying to convince me and the rest of board or yourself? You're far more obsessed with gender and transgender people than the average person. Given how the most homophobic people have been proven to be repressed gay people, I wonder if the most transphobic people are really repressed trans people. They go obsessed because they recognize the same feelings in themselves.

Additionally, there is a strong evidence of hidden agenda with "transgender" propaganda being heavily pushed around the world.

See the following examples:

Tom Brady and Gisele Bundchen - exposed as a secret transgender couple
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Irrefutable proof that Justin Bieber is a woman
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
LOL
This is just pathetic. I can't tell if you're trolling or just that ignorant.

And there are many more such examples with celebrities and politicians. Search the internet for "transvestigation".
UOMP8Lv.gif

You need to see a therapist. These are delusions.

Finally, the American Statue of Liberty has been identified as sharing the same facial features as the statue of Apollo, a male figure.

It is difficult to attribute all of it to a mere coincidence.
Turn off your computer and seek help. No one but you thinks like this.

Have a nice day. :)
Umm... no.
 
Trans people are generally reduced to nothing but our genitals. Just as a tip, never ask a trans person about their genitals or what surgeries they have had or will have. It's insulting because people generally aren't interested in cis people's genitals enough to bring them up in conversation.
Yep, that's what I've heard from the trans people I know. One's a journalist and has actually written some really good articles about what it's like for a trans person to deal with cis questions.
Man's physical body to a female's physical body, otherwise why need to transition?
There's a difference between describing a physical body as "male", and belonging to a "man". Many trans "issues" (I only use that word for lack of thinking of a better one) are very subtle, but the differences do count for a lot.
I'll admit to being fine with the character of Boomer in nuBSG being changed from a Black man to a East Asia woman. And the XO changing from a Black man to a White man.
Thing with those characters is there was nothing about those original characters which said they specifically had to be a certain gender/ethnicity. Problems arise when either white actors use make up to take on the appearance of an ethnicity (black face), or when a white actor is cast in a role that has a specific ethnicity inherent to the part (whitewashing), such as Tiger Lilly (native american) in the most recent Peter Pan film.
Alice Kringe for one, her Borg greasy make up hardly produced a "beauty queen."
I thought she looked hot, but that could just be me.
 
It's insulting because people generally aren't interested in cis people's genitals enough to bring them up in conversation.
Well, to be fair, maybe they would be if they were in question? It does seem that people have a fair amount of quantitative and qualitative interest in the body parts of cis people though maybe rude to bring up in casual conversation.
 
Soren was a biological female who secretly identified with being female, and who was sexually attracted to biological males who identified with being male.

She lived in a society that officially require people to reject the concept of gender and to be sexually bi-sexual.

Where do you see "conservative position" there?
Soren's society had no gendar, they were neither male or female (or were a race of hermaphrodites with both organs who knows) the fact they were played by real life human females needs to be ignored.
 
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Well, to be fair, maybe they would be if they were in question? It does seem that people have a fair amount of quantitative and qualitative interest in the body parts of cis people though maybe rude to bring up in casual conversation.
The only time you should be concerned with anyone else's genitals is if you're about to be romantic with them. Otherwise their genitals are none of your concern.
 
Soren's society had no gendar, they were neither male or female (or were a race of hermaphrodites with both organs who knows) the fact they were played by real life human females needs to be ignored.
Actually it would be more daring if Soren was played by a nonwhite male actor.
 
Alice Kringe for one, her Borg greasy make up hardly produced a "beauty queen."

I thought she looked hot, but that could just be me.

I stumbled upon a bit of First Contact on cable the other day, and my first though when the Queen appeared was "wow, they really worked to make sure she comes off... wet, instead of slimy." I'll grant results my vary, but there was definitely some babe-ification going on in the conception of that character.

But I was speculating less about a gross female alien and more about a weird/character-y female alien. And also thinking specifically about a series regular, rather than a recurring villain. Shimmerman, Billingsley, and Phillips are all great character actors. They cover them in different non-sexy alien looks, and let them loose to do their thing. Early word on Discovery suggests to me Doug Jones/Saru might be another iteration of this. Which is great, but where's the female version? A role where you could cast someone in the mold of Jackie Hoffman or Margo Martindale or Gabourey Sidibe or Frances Conroy, put them in great & immersive alien makeup, and let them do their thing.

Flaws in the writing sort of kill it, and she's also not a regular, but Ishka is probably the closest Trek has gotten to this. I did always think Cicely Adams (RIP) did a great job with what she was given.
 
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Cast Amber Riley as a Tellarite officer on the ship and make her the love interest or spouse for the sexist looking, human male on the ship. And no one on the ship bats an eyelid seeing them as a couple.
That would make the audiences' mouths fall wide open... take that Eurocentric beauty standards!
 
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