Thats James Kerwin, director.
STC Ep. 9: ???.... (Coming this June)
- Thread starter Nightowl1701
- Start date
Ah. I can't say I know (or know of) too many behind the scenes people, though I recognize Will Smith and Ralph Miller (and possibly also Dave Arland).
yeah, which is why i said "or so" .... and rounded up.
I received confirmation from composer Andy Farber that the 10th and 11th episodes will be the 2-part series finale. He knew because he told me he's planning on sneaking in part of Jerry Goldsmith's TMP theme for that 2-parter. Even though this show will end, "let's make sure history never forgets the name: Enterprise!" And next time after that finale,
On this point is where STC really blew it with its attempt at "athenticity": constantly throwing in callouts to later productions.
I was really onboard with STC's efforts from the beginning, and there is still a lot I like, but I find the increasing weight of continuity porn and tips-of-the-hat is an unnecessary nuissance that keeps interfering with a suspension of disbelief. One is already faced with a suspension of disbelief given we need to accept new actors in well established familiar roles. Piling on top of that doesn't help.
I was really onboard with STC's efforts from the beginning, and there is still a lot I like, but I find the increasing weight of continuity porn and tips-of-the-hat is an unnecessary nuissance that keeps interfering with a suspension of disbelief. One is already faced with a suspension of disbelief given we need to accept new actors in well established familiar roles. Piling on top of that doesn't help.
Last edited:
Meh, the entire premise from the start of bridging the gap between TOS S3 and TMP was always going to interfere with being totally pure and authentic 60's, no matter how well-meant Vic's intentions were. The show is enjoyable and still makes good episodes, regardless of the references - which, really, compared to other productions I've seen, hasn't been nearly as bad. I've been able to accept and embrace the new cast and the final products without being bothered by the fitting in with continuity.
Short of finding a previously undiscovered TOS episode or a quantum leap in CGI technology that can insert TOS actors into new episodes, it goes without saying that new adventures featuring the crew of the Enterprise will feature new actors. Thus to call out anything requiring suspension of disbelief or personal head cannon as "piling on" to that is silly. STC's acknowledging later productions makes sense to me in terms of widening its appeal to those who have more of a connection to those shows. And then there are the people (including my wife who is a fan of TOS from way back, just not obsessive about it) who would not even catch most of the "call outs". To me, it's a minor sin - and usually a guilty pleasure.
I don't begrudge your wishing a different approach had been made, and I agree that would have been an interesting way to go, and who knows, might have turned out better.
Speaking as a fan and fellow boardmember, what I don't grok is you feeling the need to say it over and over and over and over and OVER in every single STC thread. We GET it.
Last edited:
Whatever.
Very mature attitude.
STC has millions of fans - Star Trek comes in many flavours not just the ones YOU like, I know you find much of TNG and the JJVerse grossly offensive but many don't, please respect that.
Whatever. Apparently you don't know of or recall my last TNG rewatch.
Hallelujah
Goody.
Excuse me, but he will do nothing of the sort. Warped 9 is a valuable member of this section, and he more than a great majority of contributing members here actually strives to bring real content and thoughtful analysis to these threads. Many times I log on here and it's almost as bad as a random Facebook page.
So it bothers a few of you that Warped often brings up how STC productions have such and such an approach...well, Treadwell and also Feek, since I see that your coworker has agreed with you, and both of you are on the record for being STC crewmembers, why don't one of you just go on the record and explain what is the productions view on this specific point if you want it to finally be laid to rest, instead of trying to badger him into silence?...
In the past in other threads related to Star Trek: New voyages episodes we have had members openly question certain things, and we have had James Cawley himself or producer Greg Schnitzer who were more than willing to argue their point of view.
By the way, Just because I personally do not mention the various TNG references and accumulating quirks in STC's stories often like Warped does, it doesn't mean that I and I should hope others on this board who have a certain familiarity with screenwriting do not agree or think it as well...
WTF? I'm not even sure what you are talking about and I certainly don't know why you brought my name into this. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I even posted anything about STC; so again WTF?
For the record, I don't really care what people think of STC and I certainly won't argue that someones opinion or critique is wrong. It was hard work producing these episodes and you can choose to be entertained or not; your choice. I really respect peoples opinion and I hope they enjoy the episodes but to me it is only their own opinion and means little to what I think myself. I don't really feel the need to express what I feel here. Quite honestly, I am the harshest critic of STC and have spoken to Vic many times about where I thought STC was lacking. The bottom line is that it is Vic's production and he can do what he wants. If any of you guys think you can do better; just do it! I have told Vic many times that we could do better and I though we were missing the mark. I thought we had a chance to do something very special but didn't quite get there (yet). I felt like we were so close but didn't reach our potential.
That being said, I am quite proud of what we DID do. We delivered on every promise we made and it was an honor to be involved with both the production and with the people who created the series. On less than half of the money of what Axanar raised; we produced 11 quality episodes over 5 years and maintained a good relationship with CBS during this difficult period; quite an accomplishment! In my opinion, we didn't reach 100% of our potential but 75% is certainly better than nothing. I'm not sure what your beef is and why you brought up my name but I certainly will answer any questions honestly; I just don't feel the need to spout off.
Now, why did you bring my name up?
EDIT: Ok, I guess you saw that I liked Treadwells post and somehow tied me into whatever you are talking about. Yes, I do get tired of the same crap over and over (which is why I rarely read STC threads), so I liked his post; so what. That is my opinion!
For the record, I don't really care what people think of STC and I certainly won't argue that someones opinion or critique is wrong. It was hard work producing these episodes and you can choose to be entertained or not; your choice. I really respect peoples opinion and I hope they enjoy the episodes but to me it is only their own opinion and means little to what I think myself. I don't really feel the need to express what I feel here. Quite honestly, I am the harshest critic of STC and have spoken to Vic many times about where I thought STC was lacking. The bottom line is that it is Vic's production and he can do what he wants. If any of you guys think you can do better; just do it! I have told Vic many times that we could do better and I though we were missing the mark. I thought we had a chance to do something very special but didn't quite get there (yet). I felt like we were so close but didn't reach our potential.
That being said, I am quite proud of what we DID do. We delivered on every promise we made and it was an honor to be involved with both the production and with the people who created the series. On less than half of the money of what Axanar raised; we produced 11 quality episodes over 5 years and maintained a good relationship with CBS during this difficult period; quite an accomplishment! In my opinion, we didn't reach 100% of our potential but 75% is certainly better than nothing. I'm not sure what your beef is and why you brought up my name but I certainly will answer any questions honestly; I just don't feel the need to spout off.
Now, why did you bring my name up?
EDIT: Ok, I guess you saw that I liked Treadwells post and somehow tied me into whatever you are talking about. Yes, I do get tired of the same crap over and over (which is why I rarely read STC threads), so I liked his post; so what. That is my opinion!
Last edited:
In the beginning Vic went on record in interviews that STC was meant as a tribute to recreate TOS as exactly as possible to continue where the series left off. He said they didn't want to do things TOS couldn't have done and wanted to keep any references to later productions to a bare minimum and,when done, such references would be kept vague. He stated his rationale was that the TOS creators couldn't possibly have foreseen what would come later so including such references would not have been possible during TOS.
That didn't take long to get thrown out the window. I do recall asking about references to TAS and whether it would be acknowledged. The answer was that while they liked TAS they recognize that TOS couldn't have done aliens (and other things) like what were seen in TAS and thus they couldn't acknowledge TAS as part of the original 5-year mission.
But they they turn around and start doing fx shots that would have been highly unlikely (without a lot more time and money available) or even impossible during TOS' production.
From the get-go they included a Counselor which was a direct sop to TNG and something that simply wouldn't have been done during TOS. Yes, they did have female doctors and psychiatrists, but not ship's Counselors. The holodeck idea I give a pass because the idea was conceived during TOS only they never chose to explore it then. But it could have been done given the other fx we had already seen during the series.
They also indulged in kinds of stories which would have been highly unlikely during TOS. As an overall rule, with very rare excepton, TOS did not do followup stories. Doing it once or twice is one thing, but continuing to go back to that well is something TOS simply didn't do.
So if you want to honor the original series as it was done then why continue to indulge in things the original would never have done? That is a big inconsistency.
Showing us things TOS could have done under the conditions of the time works because it still respects the original's aspirations to reach as far as it could. Showing us things that simply wouldn't have been done even if conditions permitted is inconsistent with the original's integrity.
Yes, that's my opinion, but based on what Vic Mignogna stated when he was promoting STC in the early goings.
I like STC overall, but giving the production a pass on occasional inconsistencies with the original intent became a recurring practice as they continue to make evermore obvious references to post TOS productions and producing yet another followup to a previous TOS episode.
Hearing them make a quite vague reference to Orion history in "Lolani" is easy to pass on, but hearing a direct and specific reference to the Xindi (from ENT) in "The White Iris" crosses the line of credibility. Then later references to nanites and VOY elements in "Divided We Fall" and using dialogue in a very TNG like manner (laced throught the episodes) all serve to undermine the specific TOS flavour that Vic claimed they were going for. Then add the repeated references to past TOS events that TOS very rarely did.
That isn't faithful TOS like writing. That is contemporary style fanfic wading into continuity porn. And, no, STC isn't the only one to do it, but it really stands out in a production claiming to want to recreate TOS as faithfully as possible.
Now we come to the planned ending. The stories we're are seeing are so obviously setting the stage for TMP. They are indulging in obvious foreshadowing that TOS couldn't possibly have done. Adding musical cues from TWOK and TMP as well as showing the ship in drydock (as appears to be planned) is all shoehorning in elements that simply wouldn't have been there.
It appears that somewhere along the line Vic changed his mind on how STC would be done. He went from keeping post TOS refrences few and deliberately vague to allowing them to be common and specific.
It's his production and it's his right to do that. But just as a network or studio series can change to a direction a viewer might not agree with so I disagree with the change in STC's direction. I base that on my opinion of what undermines the production's sense of authenticity.
A lot of folks are fine with it, and thats okay. But I don't badger them because they agree with something I think weakens the production overall. If they want conventional fanfic laced with continuty porn then fine.
As Bixby and Maurice (and some others) have mentioned STC has struggled with its writing. They're not the only fan production to do so. For all the "professional" aspirations of the creative team (which I respect) the simple fact is that they haven't hit the target as often as they could have. What they needed was a truly serious story editor not afraid to say, "This could be better. You're playing it safe and predictable here." Or, "You're not being true to this character. You're writing him more like another from a later production." Or, "You're missing an opportunity to do something here. Why not go for it?"
These things are not hating on a production. They are fair minded and constructive criticisms.
There is a significant difference between saying, "This is dumb and they're idiots for doing it." and, "Man, not bad, but it could be even better if they wouldn't keep doing this and that."
That didn't take long to get thrown out the window. I do recall asking about references to TAS and whether it would be acknowledged. The answer was that while they liked TAS they recognize that TOS couldn't have done aliens (and other things) like what were seen in TAS and thus they couldn't acknowledge TAS as part of the original 5-year mission.
But they they turn around and start doing fx shots that would have been highly unlikely (without a lot more time and money available) or even impossible during TOS' production.
From the get-go they included a Counselor which was a direct sop to TNG and something that simply wouldn't have been done during TOS. Yes, they did have female doctors and psychiatrists, but not ship's Counselors. The holodeck idea I give a pass because the idea was conceived during TOS only they never chose to explore it then. But it could have been done given the other fx we had already seen during the series.
They also indulged in kinds of stories which would have been highly unlikely during TOS. As an overall rule, with very rare excepton, TOS did not do followup stories. Doing it once or twice is one thing, but continuing to go back to that well is something TOS simply didn't do.
So if you want to honor the original series as it was done then why continue to indulge in things the original would never have done? That is a big inconsistency.
Showing us things TOS could have done under the conditions of the time works because it still respects the original's aspirations to reach as far as it could. Showing us things that simply wouldn't have been done even if conditions permitted is inconsistent with the original's integrity.
Yes, that's my opinion, but based on what Vic Mignogna stated when he was promoting STC in the early goings.
I like STC overall, but giving the production a pass on occasional inconsistencies with the original intent became a recurring practice as they continue to make evermore obvious references to post TOS productions and producing yet another followup to a previous TOS episode.
Hearing them make a quite vague reference to Orion history in "Lolani" is easy to pass on, but hearing a direct and specific reference to the Xindi (from ENT) in "The White Iris" crosses the line of credibility. Then later references to nanites and VOY elements in "Divided We Fall" and using dialogue in a very TNG like manner (laced throught the episodes) all serve to undermine the specific TOS flavour that Vic claimed they were going for. Then add the repeated references to past TOS events that TOS very rarely did.
That isn't faithful TOS like writing. That is contemporary style fanfic wading into continuity porn. And, no, STC isn't the only one to do it, but it really stands out in a production claiming to want to recreate TOS as faithfully as possible.
Now we come to the planned ending. The stories we're are seeing are so obviously setting the stage for TMP. They are indulging in obvious foreshadowing that TOS couldn't possibly have done. Adding musical cues from TWOK and TMP as well as showing the ship in drydock (as appears to be planned) is all shoehorning in elements that simply wouldn't have been there.
It appears that somewhere along the line Vic changed his mind on how STC would be done. He went from keeping post TOS refrences few and deliberately vague to allowing them to be common and specific.
It's his production and it's his right to do that. But just as a network or studio series can change to a direction a viewer might not agree with so I disagree with the change in STC's direction. I base that on my opinion of what undermines the production's sense of authenticity.
A lot of folks are fine with it, and thats okay. But I don't badger them because they agree with something I think weakens the production overall. If they want conventional fanfic laced with continuty porn then fine.
As Bixby and Maurice (and some others) have mentioned STC has struggled with its writing. They're not the only fan production to do so. For all the "professional" aspirations of the creative team (which I respect) the simple fact is that they haven't hit the target as often as they could have. What they needed was a truly serious story editor not afraid to say, "This could be better. You're playing it safe and predictable here." Or, "You're not being true to this character. You're writing him more like another from a later production." Or, "You're missing an opportunity to do something here. Why not go for it?"
These things are not hating on a production. They are fair minded and constructive criticisms.
There is a significant difference between saying, "This is dumb and they're idiots for doing it." and, "Man, not bad, but it could be even better if they wouldn't keep doing this and that."
Last edited:
I've enjoyed what Continues has produced, and I've a great deal of respect for what they've achieved. That said, Warped9's criticism is entirely fair and I agree with a number of his points.
Last edited:
Similar threads
