Agents of Shield - Season 4

[Christopher]

Attention to detail department: I like that Madame Hydra has much more glamorous, "movie-star" hair than Aida does in the real world. Which was noticeable when they back to the real world there at the end.

And somehow, pulling her hair forward like that to frame her face makes her features look a lot more rectangular, and kind of Jack Kirby-esque, only more beautiful than any woman Kirby ever managed to draw. In Madame Hydra mode, she reminds me of someone from some older thing I saw -- maybe Jane Badler in V?

 

[UssGlenn]

So are there two separate versions of Aida? One still in the android body and one in the Framework? Do they communicate with each other? Madame Hydra made a comment to Fitz that implied to me she couldn't leave the framework at will, IIRC.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'noS]

It seems like they are two separate AIs. What I think is interesting is that Madame Hydra seems to be several folds more sinister and angry than her real world counterpart. I wonder if we're suppose to sympathize with the real world version of her more (given how not-evil she looks on the outside.) Is the real world Aida still on her journey to sentience taking her to misguided ends when Lady Hydra is full blown mustache-twisting evil? Maybe Aida will have to sacrifice herself to stop Madame Hydra. Although at this point, thanks to the framework, there are several characters that could end up 'sacrificing' themselves at the end for our heroes.

 

[kitik]

So are there two separate versions of Aida? One still in the android body and one in the Framework? Do they communicate with each other?

Nah, I think it's just one Aida. She just follows different rules in different worlds.

Madame Hydra made a comment to Fitz that implied to me she couldn't leave the framework at will, IIRC.

I'm pretty sure she lies to Fitz all the time.

 

[Non Sync]

Which is a silly plot contrivance. If the mind makes it real, why don't we die or get injured when we dream about dying or getting injured? Although, in fact, the "die in VR, die in reality" trope is a modernization of an old myth that you die in reality if you die in a dream -- which I know from personal experience to be false.

I also think it's lazy for writers to assume that the only thing that can give a story stakes is a threat to the characters' lives. Stakes can be emotional. The risk of failure can be engaging even if the failure isn't fatal.

There was a similar "reaction" in Brainstorm (1983- Christopher Walken, Natalie Wood, Louise Fletcher) where some of the signals could cause the same reaction to the viewer that was experienced by the original person. Only by making some modifications could an otherwise fatal tape be viewed.

 

[Crisp Conditions]

There was a similar "reaction" in Brainstorm (1983- Christopher Walken, Natalie Wood, Louise Fletcher) where some of the signals could cause the same reaction to the viewer that was experienced by the original person. Only by making some modifications could an otherwise fatal tape be viewed.

And the tape was still deadly. If not for Natalie Wood pulling Walken back, he would have followed the angels.

 

[RJDiogenes]

It's interesting that Mack's daughter is there, but not his wife.

Poor Mace. He finally got to be the hero that he always wanted to be, but he had to die for it. His death turned things around, though-- I think it was seeing him sacrifice himself to save a bunch of kids that got through to May. I hated to see him go, though, because he had developed into a really great, and likeable, character.

So the thing that Aida fixed for Fitz was his father, which I think comes as a shock to no one. It's kind of ironic. For Mace, nature beats nurture, but for Fitz, it's nurture that killed his nature. I wonder if they will bring him out of it-- or if it will follow him into the real world.

So Radcliffe has a backdoor to the Framework and he's giving it to Daisy-- but shouldn't we assume that HYDRA is listening in on their conversation, especially in light of how Daisy ended up in that predicament to begin with?

It's worth remembering that this simulation was created indirectly under the influence of the Darkhold. For all we know that is an actual pocket universe they've tethered themselves into. If so then they dying thing makes perfect sense, because "evil book!"

Good point. I forgot all about the Darkhold aspect of it. This could also explain the "Mirror Universe" way it turned out.

 

[kitik]

So there are 4 episodes left this season.

Here's what I'm thinking: if ABC knew these were the final 4 episodes of the show, they'd actually be advertising that, to try to get some old viewers to tune in to see how it all wraps up.

Now obviously, one possible explanation is that ABC just simply hasn't decided yet. They were super early with announcements about a ton of their shows last year, announcing lots of news in March I think. But they have been pretty silent this year, and Shield is no exception to that.

I will say that it was smart thinking by the showrunners to set up this pod structure. Even if it doesn't get a full-order season 5 renewal, they still might get another pod of 7-8 episodes.

 

[Marc]

Poor Mace. He finally got to be the hero that he always wanted to be, but he had to die for it. His death turned things around, though-- I think it was seeing him sacrifice himself to save a bunch of kids that got through to May. I hated to see him go, though, because he had developed into a really great, and likeable, character.

Hopefully at least some of the memories from the framework will carry over when they leave so there's an acknowledgement of Mace's sacrifice so he's remembered in the "real" world.

 

[Star Wolf]

Hopefully at least some of the memories from the framework will carry over when they leave so there's an acknowledgement of Mace's sacrifice so he's remembered in the "real" world.

Why wouldn't they be? Before being murdered Dr. Radcliffe moved back and forth between the world and his fantasy island with Agnus

 

[Turtletrekker]

This week saw another uptick in the ratings.

 

[The Old Mixer]

If the Framework is so realistic that people in it can't tell it's not real, then couldn't injury traumatic enough to result in death cause a fatal shock to the system?

 

[Crisp Conditions]

If the Framework is so realistic that people in it can't tell it's not real, then couldn't injury traumatic enough to result in death cause a fatal shock to the system?

Right.

I'm wondering how a brain would continue to function, if every perception and experience indicated that it and its body had been crushed under a collapsing building.

 

[Tuskin38]

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Spoiler

So in the Framework history Ward was recruited by Victoria Hand
It sounds like Garrett never got to Ward

 

[Christopher]

If the Framework is so realistic that people in it can't tell it's not real, then couldn't injury traumatic enough to result in death cause a fatal shock to the system?

I could buy that in some cases, the terror or pain or stress of a simulated fatal experience could give someone a heart attack or something. What I can't buy is that it would be guaranteed to happen in every case, regardless of the individual's physical condition or susceptibility.

 

[Tuskin38]

Aida may have programmed it that way, the world was meant to be realistic after all. If the didn't die, what would she do? Put him back in an reconfigure the world?

 

[Christopher]

Aida may have programmed it that way, the world was meant to be realistic after all. If the didn't die, what would she do? Put him back in an reconfigure the world?

But Simmons would've had no way of knowing that was the case.

 

[kitik]

I would love to see Mace wake up in the season finale, and then someone says "huh, I guess you don't die in the real world after all".

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I would love to see Mace wake up in the season finale, and then someone says "huh, I guess you don't die in the real world after all".

Walking into the room flanked by two pretty ladies, saying something about an amusement park?

 

[RJDiogenes]

I was thinking the same thing, but we did see him flatline.