Iron Fist (Marvel/Netflix)

[kirk55555]

So is closeness to the source material your only criteria for whether or not a show is "good"? What about the quality of it's writing, acting, story, ect. Sure it's nice when an adaptation sticks close to the source material, but there's alot more to an show than that. You can have a good show, that is a bad adaptation of the source material. The Bixby/Ferigno Hulk is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, it had almost nothing to do with the source material, but it was still a good show.

Well, from the little I could stand of TIH, I thought it was terrible. I mean, the complete hatred of the source material wasn't the only problem in the bit I once, but being mediocre and then not using the source material just makes it worse.

It's hard think of one good superhero production that didn't at least use a good chunk of the source material, so Even the good stuff that changes things still feel like they're using the material as a base and don't actively hate or feel disdain toward it. I guess Tim Burton's Batman is the closest for me, at least in the 1989 movie. He kills people pretty freely along with a few other things that are off, but its still an entertaining movie and it does some things pretty well. Generally speaking, its not how accurate a superhero movie/show is that makes it good, but ignoring the source material or outright hating it almost never leads to anything good.

Wow, that's got to be the first time Luke Cage has ever been described as vanilla.

I think I phrased that wrong. Luke Cage isn't vanilla, that's why I singled it out as being good. When it comes to shows being an average drama with some comic book elements sprinkled in, DD Season 2 and JJ fit that better, although being bland is the least of those two shows problems.

Hollywood Reporter slaughters the series too:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/marvels-iron-fist-review-984200

And yes, it sounds like they really did go down the White Saviour/Asiansplaining route despite their claims otherwise.

Oh, I'm shocked. Completely shocked. Who would have thought this would happen

Seriously, though, that article was entertaining. It seems like the show is worse then I would have guessed. even if it gets "better" after those episodes, having six bad episodes out of 13 is fairly inexcusable.

 

[JD]

I think I phrased that wrong. Luke Cage isn't vanilla, that's why I singled it out as being good. When it comes to shows being an average drama with some comic book elements sprinkled in, DD Season 2 and JJ fit that better, although being bland is the least of those two shows problems.

Uhhh, I wasn't talking about the quality of the show.........

 

[Christopher]

It's in large measure a corporate branding move. There's no technological reason Netflix couldn't release episodes one at a time like traditional TV channels (they've actually done it before), or make their drama episodes more distinctive the way each Master of None is basically its own short film a la Louie, but they go for the "one big continuous story" template to achieve a distinct identity.

But the point is, you don't have to choose between making one big story and making its individual parts stand out. It's not a zero-sum game. The best stories are those that balance two or more different goals at once. The ideal is to make each installment work as a distinct entity while also having them add up to a larger whole. For instance, the Star Wars trilogies, Back to the Future, the Star Trek Genesis trilogy, and others -- each installment has a beginning and ending and tells a distinct phase of the story, but they add up into a single larger narrative. That's preferable to something like the Hobbit trilogy, which was essentially one continuous movie with a pair of 12-month intermissions.

And there are Netflix shows that do this successfully, at least in animation. For instance, Voltron: Legendary Defender tells a distinct story in each episode (or 2-parter), but they're all parts of an ongoing, building narrative arc. Guillermo Del Toro's Trollhunters is the same way. In live action, A Series of Unfortunate Events devotes 2 episodes to each book in the series it's adapting, so it's a succession of distinct 2-part stories that are each one phase in a larger, evolving saga.

 

[Timby]

Hollywood Reporter slaughters the series too:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/marvels-iron-fist-review-984200

And yes, it sounds like they really did go down the White Saviour/Asiansplaining route despite their claims otherwise.

I'm shocked, shocked, that a show produced by the guy who thought "Lumberjack Dexter" was a great idea has turned out to be awful.

 

[JD]

Lumberjack Dexter?

 

[Timby]

Lumberjack Dexter?

Read up on the series finale of Dexter. It's ... it's something, that's for sure.

 

[Gaith]

But the point is, you don't have to choose between making one big story and making its individual parts stand out. It's not a zero-sum game.

I fear your application to corporate marketing school will likely be declined. My sympathies.

The best stories are those that balance two or more different goals at once. The ideal is to make each installment work as a distinct entity while also having them add up to a larger whole.

Well, the geekosphere has largely treated the deeply mediocre writing of Daredevil S1 (to say nothing of the S2 clusterfruitcake) as roughly on par with The Wire, so if pleasing their subscribers is that easy, why not dash off scripts while hung over, and forgo rewrites for another round of afternoon golf?

 

[JD]

Read up on the series finale of Dexter. It's ... it's something, that's for sure.

I just read the description on Amazon, and I see what you mean.

 

[Hound of UIster]

I'm shocked, shocked, that a show produced by the guy who thought "Lumberjack Dexter" was a great idea has turned out to be awful.

Isn't this the same person they have put in charge of Inhumans?

 

[Timby]

Isn't this the same person they have put in charge of Inhumans?

Yyyyyyyyyep.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Yeah, I'm not surprised either. Dexter was awful after season 4, around the time he took over.

Ah, well. I'll still give it try but I won't be too disappointed because I don't really care about Iron Fist one way or the other (same for the Inhumans).

 

[Hound of UIster]

Hopefully this kills this nonsense of pushing Inhumans as some sort of answer to Fox having the X-Men.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I'm willing to lower expectations for this. One review I saw is that the show does get better (by episode four), but it's very slow at first. Since it's 13 episodes, I'm hoping it'll finish strong since that's actually been the weakness of the other Netflix shows. Doesn't mean it'll be an excuse for a weak first half, but it's something that won't be reflected in the reviews so far.

 

[Timby]

Hopefully this kills this nonsense of pushing Inhumans as some sort of answer to Fox having the X-Men.

Don't count on it. Marvel's pushing the Inhumans comic books hard while gradually reducing the number of X-Men books published, and they have every intention of making a movie if the series does well.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Marvel is releasing nine X-Men books soon (compared to three Inhumans books). That's not reducing X-Men books in favor of Inhumans books, it's a dramatic expansion (previously, there were five to six X-Men books, depending on what you count, compared to three Inhumans books).

ETA: Apparently ten books (or a mini or something) with Greg Pak getting a second one.

 

[theenglish]

I'm willing to lower expectations for this. One review I saw is that the show does get better (by episode four), but it's very slow at first. Since it's 13 episodes, I'm hoping it'll finish strong since that's actually been the weakness of the other Netflix shows. Doesn't mean it'll be an excuse for a weak first half, but it's something that won't be reflected in the reviews so far.

I disagree. I think the Netflix series start off quite strong and end strong but the middle episodes seem like filler sometimes.

 

[StCoop]

I do find the idea that in an age when we have more good television than time to watch it, we should have to force our way through six hours of a series in the hope that it gets better later a bit ridiculous.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I disagree. I think the Netflix series start off quite strong and end strong but the middle episodes seem like filler sometimes.

I suppose I should be more precise. It's usually about episode nine (Nelson v. Murdock was the weakest part of the first season of Daredevil, for example, imo). That being said, some people thought Luke Cage fell off the rails when Diamondback took over. I don't necessarily agree, but I do think there might have been a bit of padding with the going to Georgia part.

 

[Timby]

I suppose I should be more precise. It's usually about episode nine (Nelson v. Murdock was the weakest part of the first season of Daredevil, for example, imo). That being said, some people thought Luke Cage fell off the rails when Diamondback took over. I don't necessarily agree, but I do think there might have been a bit of padding with the going to Georgia part.

For me, Daredevil was generally strong throughout the first season, but its second year was unwatchable outside of Bernthal and D'Onofrio (they somehow managed to make ninjas boring -- that's not an easy accomplishment). Jessica Jones was really weird but fell off a cliff about five or six shows in. I tapped out on Luke Cage after maybe an episode and a half.

 

[Commander Richard]

IGN's Jim Vejvoda is not impressed with the first six eps:

What ensues is basically a soap opera plot where bland, pretty, filthy rich people sneer and scheme over fortunes and family, complete with betrayals and characters seemingly back from the dead. The plight of an heir reclaiming his fortune and empire may be high enough stakes in a soap or a stodgy British costume drama, but in a show called Iron Fist this isn’t the most engaging way to spend time getting acquainted with the last Defender.​

I don't mind stuff like that so we'll see. The mention of Dexter's show runner has me concerned though. His ideas can be good but the execution is hit or miss. And he did give us Six Feet Under, so let's see what he does here.