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I Don't Get Neelix and Kes

I think that the Neelix-Kes relationship started to crumble the days after they came on board Voyager.

kes settled in very quickly. She came up with the idea of growing their own food in the Hydroponics Bay, finding new friends among the crew, becoming the nurse in sickbay and spending most of the time with what she wanted to do which was exploring and learning.

Heelix on the other hand had more problems with that. He obviously faeared that he couldn't contribute the way her really wanted to and was afraid that Janeway would dump him on some planet along the way. Therefore he constantly came up with a lot of whims, like becoming the cook, Morale Officer, journalist and whatever. he was constantly pestering Janeway, Chakotay and Tuvok and even Torres with becoming part of the security team, engineering team or whatever.

What actually broke the relationship was Neelix's jealousy and possessive attitude towards Kes. She probably saw him as her Prince Charming who had saved him from the Kazon but gradually lost interest when Neelix became more and more manic about their relationship. Finally it had to break up.

However, Neelix was never mean or mistreating in any way, not intentional. He just became very difficult to have around. The same for all his whims which actually did annoy some senior officers from time to time, Tuvok the most.

I remember some comments in one of the books (I can't remember which one right now) when Tom Paris said about Neelix: "Why do his best never turn out to be what we expected from him" which may have some truth in it. In his eager to please, he over-did a lot of things which got the opposite effect. The tragic of his life.

I don't think he became much better in the 4-7 seasons when he was whimpering around Samantha and Naomi Wildman. It was another of his whims, they replaced Kes for him. I guess he had a thing for Samantha as well.

I guess that all of it was the result of his tragic background when he lost his beloved family during the war between Talaxia and Haakonia and therefore left Talaxia to travel among the stars.

But all of that makes Neelix a very interesting character. Really tragic and therefore likeable despite his flaws. The character actually has more depth and dimension that many viewers notice which makes him very interesting-and very likeable! :bolian:
I'm going to agree with most of this. Until Voyager Kes and the rest of her species were sheltered and ignorant of the universe around them. Had they not found Voyager Neelix might have rescued her on his own and she would have lived on his ship with him for the rest of her life perfectly happy because she wouldn't have known anything else. Coming aboard Voyager showed her how things could be different. She grew, learned, evolved, and in doing so grew past her relationship. Many people go through that. It's like being with your high school sweetheart. It seems like the best thing while you are young but as you grow and learn often you realize that relationship is not the best for you anymore.

Neelix came aboard Voyager boasting about how useful he would be. And he was for the most part. I think because of his own dark past he was always afraid of not being useful and not having a place on Voyager so he was always trying to get involved with more things. Which is also why I think he became more interesting after they broke up and he was doing things other than being jealous of Kes all the time.
 
What intrigues me the most would be to know how producers did think a single moment that Neelix and Kes, as a romantic couple, were going to make capsize our hearts?
I can accept the idea that these two can love each other but I rather see Neelix feeling something like paternal or brotherly love, even in the absence of direct family link, than a romantic feeling -> let's not forget that Neelix showed us how much he needs to protect the innocent or the weak being like a child and in a certain way, it's what Kes is for him, a little thing who would need to be protected, because of her young age and her lack of experience of life and people... .

6e5f9ce91ca99656c8a18637d07774a7.jpg
Love is tenderness

Neelix4.jpg
It's true love!
 
I'm going to agree with most of this. Until Voyager Kes and the rest of her species were sheltered and ignorant of the universe around them. Had they not found Voyager Neelix might have rescued her on his own and she would have lived on his ship with him for the rest of her life perfectly happy because she wouldn't have known anything else. Coming aboard Voyager showed her how things could be different. She grew, learned, evolved, and in doing so grew past her relationship. Many people go through that. It's like being with your high school sweetheart. It seems like the best thing while you are young but as you grow and learn often you realize that relationship is not the best for you anymore.

Neelix came aboard Voyager boasting about how useful he would be. And he was for the most part. I think because of his own dark past he was always afraid of not being useful and not having a place on Voyager so he was always trying to get involved with more things. Which is also why I think he became more interesting after they broke up and he was doing things other than being jealous of Kes all the time.
You actually agree with most of what I wrote! :eek:
Amazing! It must be the first time!
But thanks anyway! ;)
 
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What actually broke the relationship was Neelix's jealousy and possessive attitude towards Kes. She probably saw him as her Prince Charming who had saved him from the Kazon but gradually lost interest when Neelix became more and more manic about their relationship. Finally it had to break up.

However, Neelix was never mean or mistreating in any way, not intentional. He just became very difficult to have around.

Neelix' jealous and possessiveness all goes back to the Playing House thing going on with Kes. As Téa observed, he kept waiting & waiting for her to take their relationship to the next level ... but it wouldn't. It didn't. And he found that particularly frustrating. "How can't this pretty pixie give herself over so completely to a Space Hyæna? What's her PROBLEM?!"

But Neelix has great need and it wasn't about to allow him to accept that his reach had exceeded its grasp, where Kes was concerned. At the same time, he's feeling his situation with Kes is becoming increasingly precarious, here. Since he can't blame himself for that ... he'll blame every Man that Kes encounters. But she doesn't even factor in ... it's all about Neelix selfishness. If he does right by Kes and lets her go ... then, where does that leave him?

He's NEVER going to get with another beautiful, young woman. He can save the next one from her Darkest Hour a dozen times over ... and she won't get with him. She might give Neelix a kiss in gratitude, but her being grateful won't go THAT far. She ain't gonna placate his fractured ego, or tolerate his jealousy. All of that shit goes out the window, without Kes. Grannies in orthopedic shoes are what's swimming in the only pond left for him to fish in. But Kes spoiled him ...
 
Neelix will be much happier with the Talaxian family in "Homestead" than he ever would have been with Kes.

Neelix latched on to Kes because he was lonely and thought she was his only chance at happiness. That's why he was so jealous and possessive - obviously he never meant Kes any harm, it's just that it was the only way he knew how to act.

It wasn't until he found that Talaxian colony that he realized THAT was where he truly belonged.
 
I wonder what it would have been like for the Neelix of the "Before and After" reality see Kes move ahead with her life with Tom. The one he was so jealous of before.
 
Season 1 also had about 5 or episodes that were cut off and saved for season 2 as the Network wanted Season 2 to start in August, I believe. The 37's, for instance, was filmed to be the season 1 finale.

This is exactly it. Elogium was held back and should have been a season 1 show along with Projections, Twisted and The 37s.

I admit to spending a while trying to work this all out with Stardates and airdates, but while I was typing it up, I felt my own eyes start to glaze over. (Let me know if you want me to post my calculations, although I warn you that even I found it amazingly geeky and deleted what I'd typed twice.)

However it all comes down to the time-span between Caretaker and Elogium. If we assume it as being approx 5-7 months, depending on whether count Elogium as a season 1 or 2 episode. If Kes celebrates her second birthday in Twisted (approx 3-4 weeks after Elogium), then she could just as easily have been about 17 months old during Caretaker, and we know that Ocampans become young adults at approximately 12 months old.

This also makes sense of Harry graduating Starfleet Academy eight months earlier during Non Sequitur.

What it doesn't make sense of though is Samantha Wildman's pregnancy. Even if it's just five months later, I doubt that any human female would be ignorant of their own pregnancy in that time. However, as the baby is half human, half Ktarian, maybe that would result in a longer gestation, but considering how quickly Naomi grows up I think that's unlikely.
 
She really did look like shit, at the end of Fury --- you're absolutely right. It's been a while since I've last viewed that episode, though ... I'm trying to remember, now. Neelix was there, in the transporter room, with Janeway and they were offering her a chance to stay after she'd been such a destructive whackadoo, the rest of the episode.

And Kes receives that information. She looks humbled, for a moment ... and remorseful. Then she insists on going back home to Ocampa for reasons I forget, right now. But for a girl who was allergic to latex being superglued to her face, Jennifer Lien took it like a champ, for this one ...
 
This is exactly it. Elogium was held back and should have been a season 1 show along with Projections, Twisted and The 37s.

I admit to spending a while trying to work this all out with Stardates and airdates, but while I was typing it up, I felt my own eyes start to glaze over. (Let me know if you want me to post my calculations, although I warn you that even I found it amazingly geeky and deleted what I'd typed twice.)

However it all comes down to the time-span between Caretaker and Elogium. If we assume it as being approx 5-7 months, depending on whether count Elogium as a season 1 or 2 episode. If Kes celebrates her second birthday in Twisted (approx 3-4 weeks after Elogium), then she could just as easily have been about 17 months old during Caretaker, and we know that Ocampans become young adults at approximately 12 months old.

This also makes sense of Harry graduating Starfleet Academy eight months earlier during Non Sequitur.

What it doesn't make sense of though is Samantha Wildman's pregnancy. Even if it's just five months later, I doubt that any human female would be ignorant of their own pregnancy in that time. However, as the baby is half human, half Ktarian, maybe that would result in a longer gestation, but considering how quickly Naomi grows up I think that's unlikely.
I think she was pregnant for like 15 months lol. She did know about it though. Only Janeway didn't know, as the Doctor was waiting for Ensign Wildman to tell her, herself.

What's really weird is how Kataarians went from having "butt-faces" to spikes on their foreheads...
 
I've always suspected -- & honestly believe -- that Kes & Neelix are based on something else. They're referential of some work of literature, or probably a play, but I've no idea what. Obviously, though, it involves a trucker who picks up a girl.
Neelix is Burt Reynolds and Kes is Sally Field.
 
What's really weird is how Kataarians went from having "butt-faces" to spikes on their foreheads...

Well, to be fair, it could be just a matter of male and female Ktarians having different appearances. IIRC, we see exactly one example of each: one female (Etana Jol in 'The Game') and one male (a Borg drone in an episode whose name escapes me).

Naomi gets a free pass because of her mixed parentage, of course.
 
So what do you guys prefer? The butt-forehead, or the spiked forehead?
 
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