The truth about Discovery and the Prime universe.

[Jedman67]

Also double check the "thousands of years in 'interstellar space'."
Space is huge (see Douglas Adams quote on the vastness of space). Pragmatically, exploration of space for the purpose of scientific exploration, for economic pursuits or for colonization would fit the mode of 'logic'.
That there were distances unexplored by the Vulcans was partially due to the existence of the "Expanse" from the Time War Temporal Cold War (edit).

 

[Mudd]

The only real function the assertion served was explaining why space is a vast unexplored unknown when everyone has traipsed over it for centuries before Kirk got there.

Vulcans left their planet for Romulus quite some time ago.

The bottom line is that Star Trek continuity doesn't really make sense.

 

[Noname Given]

And imagine how silly it would look to a 2017 audience if DSC looked like "The Cage."

IDK - The Bridge of the 1701 looked quite advanced in ENT's "In a Mirror Darkly" where they did effectively show that all those recessed terminals on the Bridge were high resolution graphics display terminals, etc. And honestly the 1960ies version of the Bridge and the Helm to me looked WAY more advanced then the 1979 and 1982 Bridges where they put in large CRTs and had them displaying TRS-80 and Atari 800 PC level graphics (the best in their day).

I think you could maintain the look from TOS and/or "The Cage" and still make it look more advanced then what we have in 2017 and make it work. But all that said, I'll be curious myself to see the end result. It appears they have embraced and have people who know the era this show is set in, so while I don't expect a Slavish adherence to what we saw in the 1960ies, I think they'll come up with something that still evokes elements of it and fits within it - and still looks 'good' to a 'modern' audience; but we'll see.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

The bottom line is that Star Trek continuity doesn't really make sense.

Pretty much. Nor should it! I'd rather the writers focus on making the stories good instead of making sure they've accounted for all 50 years of Star Trek history in excruciating detail so that people on the internet won't rip an episode apart over some minor bit of trivia.

 

[Mudd]

Well, see, that was the mistake Enterprise's producers made - they worked too hard on maintaining continuity with the older shows.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The bottom line is that Star Trek continuity doesn't really make sense.

You can say that again.

This, this, a thousand times over.

Well, see, that was the mistake Enterprise's producers made - they worked too hard on maintaining continuity with the older shows.

This, too.

 

[cultcross]

Time War

Similar to but legally distinct from a temporal cold war....

 

[Noname Given]

That was something I didn't like about the series: this overriding thing about the Vulcans being the humans' masters, having to give the humans permission to do this or that, seemingly.

They were hardly portrayed as the Human's "masters". Were that the actual relationship, there never would have been an NX-01 nor a Warp 5 Engine project. They were advisors who the Humans listened to, but in the end, the Humans did what they wanted to. Also, I think the ENT portrayal of Vulcans was spot on and well done. They took their ques from TOS (and episodes like "Amok Time" and "Journey to Babel" where we saw full Vulcans interacting with Humans.) On TOS they were very much shown as proud, sometimes arrogant, and always looking down a bit at other races who didn't share their wholly 'logical/dispassionate' view of the Universe.

 

[Kor]

Yes, TOS Vulcans were petty backbiters (in a logical way, of course). I think that many fans have just come to expect all Vulcans to be decent folk like Spock.

Kor

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Vulcans have a long history of irritating the hell out of humans. McCoy's character practically hinges on it.

 

[Mudd]

The marvelous thing about "Amok Time" was how Sturgeon subverted everything that Spock had led us to expect about Vulcans.

TOS stories that injected ambiguity and surprise into the show's milieu really contributed a lot more to its durability than has slavish adherence to past continuity.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

The marvelous thing about "Amok Time" was how Sturgeon subverted everything that Spock had led us to expect about Vulcans.

TOS stories that injected ambiguity and surprise into the show's milieu really contributed a lot more to its durability than has slavish adherence to past continuity.

That's what I found so refreshing about the Vulcans in ENT. I had always adored Vulcans (still do), and yet it was intriguing to see a different side of them and an earlier, less friendly relationship they had with humans. I think that provides a level of depth and complexity.

 

[uniderth]

Rocket's landing tail first?

The future:

Paper on a starship?

BOOM! The future:

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Paper on a starship?

BOOM! The future:

Way to be pedantic.

The point of the criticism of that scene in "The Cage" is not that there exists paper, but rather that paper is being used as the output medium, when what we use today to read such a message is simply a computer monitor. When all we have to do is read something off, we don't print it to paper first, we simply display it on a screen. What's being shown on "The Cage" is now obsolete technology.

Space: 1999 was guilty of the same thing a decade later: Kano was constantly getting printouts from Computer that looked like they came from a cash register tape, instead of simply looking at one of the CRT monitors and reading the data from there. They had a lot of flashing lights and they had CRT screens that could render both text and pixel-based graphics, but the show-runners had a very poor understanding of what computer graphics would be capable of even before the year 1999.

 

[Jedman67]

Vulcans have a long history of irritating the hell out of humans. McCoy's character practically hinges on it.

McCoy was irritated by everyone. Just rewatch the scene from Space Seed, where Khan wakes up and holds McCoy hostage - he was just needling Kahn unnecessarily - I was cracking up.
I'm not such a TOS fan, but I absolutely love the snark between the main characters.

 

[Mudd]

They're not going to be using paper readouts because it would be stupid in 2017.

Also, they'd be ripping off nuBSG.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

They're not going to be using paper readouts because it would be stupid in 2017.

Also, they'd be ripping off nuBSG.

Of course, in nuBSG it was a conscious choice by Moore et al. to go retro like that, under the conceit that [TECHNOBABBLE] Adama and company were trying to proof their ship against a threat that could exploit networked computers [/TECHNOBABBLE].

 

[Noname Given]

Way to be pedantic.

The point of the criticism of that scene in "The Cage" is not that there exists paper, but rather that paper is being used as the output medium, when what we use today to read such a message is simply a computer monitor. When all we have to do is read something off, we don't print it to paper first, we simply display it on a screen. What's being shown on "The Cage" is now obsolete technology.

Funny as we're still not paperless where I work; and I have to print and submit hardcopys of reports for my supervisors and others to read all the time.

 

[Number One]

Well, see, that was the mistake Enterprise's producers made - they worked too hard on maintaining continuity with the older shows.

They really didn't. They just maintained intra-continuity to THEIR shows, cause Berman, really. They were too self proud to believe they became Star Trek and that was their mistake, they lost so many opportunities technology wise(like with Pulse pistols instead of Phase, needless transporter, needless photonic missiles etc), as in they cared too much about their trek, when a great deal of fans did express their desire to see something different.

And of all the Trek Universe they've shown what they thought would be popular regardless, like Borg Ferengi and the like. In the meantime, they forgot(?) to give the same gravity to Storytelling and the amalgamated universe was lacking both in originality and excitement. So it wasn't that much viewed
and if I may say so, when they have seen they couldn't save it they effectivelly sinked it themselves to get their own way.

Enterprise will always be the lost chance of B&B to make something original deviate alot from the original with an explanation and tell their stories. Somewhere along the road they forgot Star Trek isn't its technobabble or its aliens alone(especially during that specific timeframe). For the most part you need that after a point, for which obviously a level of continuity has to be maintained(excluding ENT, always, as it was so close to our time you could get away with it and it wasn't that needed) as in you make a cop show, people expect to see policemen uniforms and not astronauts or marines and vice versa but you always need good story telling and fresh ideas, OR at least clever re-uses of them to appear this way. This was ENT's main fault. And when it improved, it was because of storytelling, but keeping the level of CGI and lore to a fine level and adding continuity to acceptable levels and not the producer's distorted idea of what continuity should be.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Rather amusing that ENT can be slammed by one group of fans for being TOO canon, and by another group for not being canon ENOUGH. They can't win, can they?

Probably the same thing will apply to DSC...