The truth about Discovery and the Prime universe.

[Dukhat]

You're a major television producer are you?

I think like a lawyer because I am one, doesn't mean I'm right on everything and beyond question and that the opinions of the layman are instantly invalid.

I don't have to be a television producer to be able to think like one. Just like you don't have to be a lawyer to establish legality from illegality.

It's simple economics. CBS is in the business of making money. They will not make money by producing a tv show with '60's production values if they expect to make and keep a substantial fan base and have people shell out six bucks a month for their streaming service when most people who want to see the show already have Netflix and/or Amazon Prime.

 

[KennyB]

Valid point @Dukhat . #evolve

 

[KennyB]

I didn't like the Vulcans at the beginning of Enterprise but after their story culminating in Season 4 it has grown on me.

I just watched Kir'Shara last night and was a bit sad when the Vulcan's pledged to stop looking over our shoulder that we didn't get to see that play out in more seasons.

 

[cultcross]

I saw the Humans being treated as if they were a 'primitive people'; much more 'childlike, emotional and violent'.

Thing was though, they were. Archer was a reactionary arsehole when dealing with the Vulcans, and in his very first appearance uses racial terminology against them. The Vulcans are absolutely right to treat the humans in ENT as immature and a danger to themselves and others, because that is exactly how they acted. That they didn't end up captured or vaporised on their first mission was almost entirely sheer luck. Now I'm not saying that's unrealistic, at all, although you'd like to think they'd pick someone with a bit more professionalism to lead their first big mission. But portraying that isn't something I was interested in seeing under the Star Trek banner. Personal taste, of course, but it just wasn't the future I'd come to love in TOS and the sequels.

 

[Mudd]

The Vulcans as they were portrayed in Enterprise was the only way that decades of haphazard "continuity" could make dramatic sense.

 

[SPCTRE]

The Vulcans as they were portrayed in Enterprise was the only way that decades of haphazard "continuity" could make dramatic sense.

yup, I think it was a good choice even though not everyone in the audience "got" them

 

[cultcross]

The Vulcans made perfect sense to me. It was the humans I didn't like. Petulant children not being allowed to play with matches.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

The Vulcans made perfect sense to me. It was the humans I didn't like. Petulant children not being allowed to play with matches.

That was something I didn't like about the series: this overriding thing about the Vulcans being the humans' masters, having to give the humans permission to do this or that, seemingly.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ And when you think about it: What gave the Vulcans the right to tell Earth what to do?

Perhaps, as I've always suspected, Vulcan helped Earth with the cleanup and rebuilding after World War III. If that's so, maybe they expected some kind of payback for services rendered...

 

[KirkusOveractus]

^ To me, that doesn't seem like a Vulcan to expect payback or be mercenary. In fact, that part of the Vulcan way in Enterprise was something that irked me. If they had T'Pol as an observer to see how the humans were starting out in their quest for interstellar exploration for some form of historical need would be one thing, but having her there to essentially report back to Vulcan was something out of character, as far as I know Vulcans would be.

Vulcans having a sense of entitlement just seemed out of character to me.

 

[Jedman67]

That was something I didn't like about the series: this overriding thing about the Vulcans being the humans' masters, having to give the humans permission to do this or that, seemingly.

I found it more so that the Vulcans were being too arrogant to allow the 'human "children" ' out to play and kept pushing them to keep their extrasolar activity to a minimum. Archer generally struck me as simply being too frustrated by the stalling tactics of the vulcan ambassadors to earth to give them much respect.
For better or worse, according to Archer, the human race would never be "ready enough" for the Vulcans until they went out there on their own.
The show got a lot wrong, no doubt, but it did do a few things right.

 

[Jedman67]

Abrams and his design team got things right in the new movies.

LENS FLARES!

Vulcans having a sense of entitlement just seemed out of character to me.

It wasn't entitlement. It was defensive I guess. Any missteps by the Vulcan's pupil race would reflect badly on them. It was also to keep those "human children" out of trouble with some of the nastier people out there.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

I found it more so that the Vulcans were being too arrogant to allow the 'human "children" ' out to play and kept pushing them to keep their extrasolar activity to a minimum. Archer generally struck me as simply being too frustrated by the stalling tactics of the vulcan ambassadors to earth to give them much respect.
For better or worse, according to Archer, the human race would never be "ready enough" for the Vulcans until they went out there on their own.
The show got a lot wrong, no doubt, but it did do a few things right.

I do agree with your last sentence and the one before. Maybe it was used as a dramatic device to have the Vulcans that way, forcing the humans to break out on their own and find out for themselves how it is out there.

 

[cultcross]

^ And when you think about it: What gave the Vulcans the right to tell Earth what to do?

Maybe they were trying to help, and using their centuries of space faring experience to give humanity the benefit of their wisdom. Humans had only just, on that timescale, stopped nuking each other. It's understandable they were queasy about them taking on the complexities of interstellar exploration. But like teenagers told not to do something dangerous they replied 'nuh uh, you can't stop me' and went on to do it anyway. You can understand why the Vulcans were frustrated.

 

[Mudd]

The Vulcans weren't big on exploration, themselves. They didn't get what it was the humans were all excited about.

Does that seem plausible?

Not really, but since TOS established way back in the first season that Vulcans had been traveling in interstellar space for perhaps thousands of years, there had to be some reason that most of the Galaxy surrounding Earth for thousands of light years had never been explored.

 

[cultcross]

The idea that curiosity about the unknown is a perculiar human trait is hinted at throughout Star Trek but doesn't really fit that well with the number of species with advanced space travel. You don't have a space programme at all without at least some drive to explore.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

I think with Vulcans their "we're not big on exploring for its own sake" may be a distinction of word choice or intent. Humans explore largely (but not exclusively) to meet new civilizations and cultures, expand our horizons, etc. I think Vulcans see their space exploration within the context of scientific advancement/development, not the touchy-feely Human relationships stuff.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Actually, even though it may seem a tangent we're going on in this thread, I'm about to bring it back home (are you ready?)

Given this series is a closer bridge between ENT and TOS, what do you think Sarek's role will be in DSC? Will he reinforce that earlier Vulcan opinion, but have this shrugging, "We warned the humans, but they went out there anyway" attitude?

 

[Kor]

It was the usual paternalistic colonial relationship, kind of like what happened many times in real-life Earth history when a culture with more advanced science and technology (and weapons) encounters one that doesn't have those things.

Kor

 

[Kemaiku]

The idea that curiosity about the unknown is a perculiar human trait is hinted at throughout Star Trek but doesn't really fit that well with the number of species with advanced space travel. You don't have a space programme at all without at least some drive to explore.

Yet T'pol mentioned that Vulcans often overlooked huge areas of space that didn't interest them, didn't venture too far out, and resorted to using their fleet to impose their borders against the Andorians and others.