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Sci Fi TV Recommendations

I didn't mean the picky thing as an insult or an attempt to start another argument, and I apolize if it upset you. It's good that you know what you like, but just because you don't like the stuff on the air doesn't mean it isn't there.
I still don't understand how you could possibly like Buffy and then rip on things like Teen Wolf and The Originals. I'd say Buffy and Teen Wolf are really close in that regard, and The Originals deals with things from a more adult perspective, and focuses more on the Mickealsons' family issues than on the romantic stuff.
 
Buffy was not focused on relationships and teen drama. It had those things sometimes, but it wasn't the purpose of the show. In the end, Buffy was about the slayer and the things she did, like saving the world. Sure there could be drama, and there were definitely relationships (which ranged from terrible, like Buffy and Riley, to well done, like Willow and Tara), but that wasn't the focus of the show. Stuff like Teen Wolf/The Originals might have overarching plot points (I'm just guessing that they do), but the focus is on the relationships and the drama, they're the core of those shows and the reason people watch. No one tuned into Buffy to see what was happening with her love life, they tuned in because the show was about good characters getting into trouble and saving the world. It was well written (generally, all shows have bad episodes), and while characters were a big focus it still did good stories and arcs.

It all comes down to this: romance/relationships were an element of Buffy, but not the focus (and they were generally done about 1000x better then the angsty romances of modern stuff). Stuff like TW, TO, etc are all about the drama and relationships, with some supernatural fluff added for variety or to set up specific types of angst/drama. Also, the idea that The Originals is more adult then Buffy is laughable, but then again I find most "adult" labeled stuff to be fairly childish and immature, so maybe it fits. I'm not even going to acknowledge the comparison to Teen Wolf, which is about as ridiculous as comparing Buffy to Twilight just because they both have vampires.

Also, since I was talking about stuff I like, good Sci Fi/fantasy is mostly not there. It just doesn't exist, outside of superhero shows and very rare special cases like The Librarians. The Sci Fi/Fantasy world is ruled by angst and drama. I just want good characters, good writing, and interesting stories. Those are three things that aren't done, because a very specific demographic just wants shows about angsty brooding people and their relationship drama. I hope that changes, but until then its a terrible time to be a fan of fantasy when it comes to TV shows, and outside of superhero stuff Sci Fi is just about as dead on TV. If people enjoy angsty drama, I'm happy for you. Same with people that like the violent semi-porn of HBO or stuff like The Expanse. But I hate that stuff, and obviously the stuff I like isn't being made much. I hope we eventually have a new golden age, where stuff like Teen Wolf and The Originals goes away and we get stuff that does Sci Fi and Fantasy as well as they used to. Things more like TNG then Expanse, or more Buffy then Vampire Diaries. We probably will at some point, the angst/drama has to burn itself out eventually, and I won't believe that real space operas are totally dead.

But, as of right now, TV is pathetic when it comes to non superhero Sci Fi and Fantasy TV (well, its really just pathetic in general, but Sci Fi and Fantasy are the stuff I mostly care about). To me, its all unwatchable angst, drama and grim darkness in Fantasy, and Sci Fi just mostly doesn't exist. I can't wait for that not to be the case, but I think it will be awhile.
 
I've been watching Teen Wolf and The Originals since they started and everything you said about Buffy is true of them. The main focus of shows is the supernatural conflicts with the relationship stuff secondary, just like it was on Buffy.
And before you start lecturing me on how wrong I am, I've actually seen almost every episode of both shows, so I know what I'm talking about.
It honestly baffles me how someone can like Buffy as much as you seem to, then turn there nose up at Teen Wolf, when they are the same kinds of shows.
When I said The Originals is more adult than Buffy all I meant is that the main about adult character who are dealing with adult issue rather than teenagers dealing with the issues you deal with as you are growing into adulthood. The family drama of Klaus, Rebecca, and Elija, the external conflicts they have with their enemies, Klaus's dealing with his daughter's mother and their conflicts over her, and the overall Vampire/Werewolf/Witch politics of New Orleans are a much bigger part of the show than the romantic drama.
 
Well, we just have to agree to disagree. I'm getting legitimately offended that you'd compare Teen Wolf to freaking Buffy, one show being a teen angsty drama on MTV and the other one being a legitimate classic that really has no relation to Teen Wolf at all except that it had a few werewolves on the show. The only connection is that they have some shared supernatural things, but there are hundreds of shows and movies that have that stuff. Buffy is no more connected to Teen Wolf then it is to Twilight, and as a fan I don't like the show getting insulted like that.

This thread was a complete bust, and I'm sorry I even tried. In the end it only confirmed what I know, that I already know all the good old stuff and the only new stuff I don't know/don't watch I hate anyway. When I asked for recommendations I didn't intend to start a thread that devolved into me fighting fans of shows I literally don't care about. I even tried to get ahead of that by trying to take The Expanse off the table. Generally speaking, I don't care if people watch angsty supernatural romances or hard sci fi mysteries. But when I specifically rule that stuff out, but people just keep going on about it, its more then a bit disheartening. This isn't specifically about you JD, its just a comment about how the whole thread has gone. All I was hoping was that someone would know about some hidden gem I had unknowingly passed over, instead I've talked/argued more about stuff like Teen Wolf and The Expanse then I ever wanted to in my entire life. I'd prefer to forget shows like that existed in general, I don't care to argue their "merits", which I don't believe actually exist but that's just when it comes to me personally.
 
Buffy is just as much of an angsty teen drama as shows like Teen Wolf, and The Vampire Diaries. The Buff/Angel relationship in the early seasons is just as angsty as any of the romances in shows like Teen Wolf and TVD. Hell the only reasons those shows are even around to do that kind of stuff is because Buffy did it first.
They've even said that the whole reason Buffy existed was so they could do exactly that kind of stuff.
EDIT: Kirk, to put this in perspective, as much as it drives you bothers you to see me say Teen Wolf and The Originals are like Buffy, the things you are saying about them bother me just as much, if not more. Those are two of my favorite shows, and I'm going to defend them when people rip on them.
 
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Buffy is just as much of an angsty teen drama as shows like Teen Wolf, and The Vampire Diaries. The Buff/Angel relationship in the early seasons is just as angsty as any of the romances in shows like Teen Wolf and TVD. Hell the only reasons those shows are even around to do that kind of stuff is because Buffy did it first.
They've even said that the whole reason Buffy existed was so they could do exactly that kind of stuff.
EDIT: Kirk, to put this in perspective, as much as it drives you bothers you to see me say Teen Wolf and The Originals are like Buffy, the things you are saying about them bother me just as much, if not more. Those are two of my favorite shows, and I'm going to defend them when people rip on them.

I'm not trying to rip them in general, but comparing them to Buffy is just ridiculous and insulting. Even in Buffy's shaky early years (I personally find Season 2 barely watchable at times), the show wasn't focused on Buffy/Angel's relationship. It was an element, sometimes annoying and sometimes interesting, but it wasn't the focus of the show. Also, after Buffy/Angel broke up they never did a relationship in that style again (that doesn't mean all the relationships after that worked well, but even the bad ones weren't in that style). Buffy is a bit like TNG. The first two seasons are not representative of the overall quality or even style of the show (although, like I said, Buffy Season 1 and 2 were never like Teen Wolf/etc, but the angsty romance element was there, just not as the main focus).

Unlike shows like Teen Wolf/Originals/etc, where angsty romance is what the shows are. Its fine to like that stuff, I'm not going to judge that, but it is a significant difference. Also, Teen Wolf, Vampire Diaries, Originals,etc don't exist because of Buffy, they exist because of Twilight. Now, I'm not saying they are as bad as that (that would be difficult to accomplish), but its the obvious ancestor to the supernatural romance/angst shows. Twilight (both the books and then the movie) wasn't the first angsty supernatural romance/drama, but its what caused it to become such a big trend. Stuff like that is about as far away from Buffy as you can get while still being a story set in the modern day with vampires.
 
BUT IT'S NOT THE MAIN FOCUS OF THOSE SHOWS EITHER, IT'S JUST ONE ELEMENT LIKE IT WAS IN BUFFY. There maybe that will get through to you.
Trust me, I've watched both Buffy and the first Twilight movie, and Teen Wolf and The Originals have more in common with Buffy than Twilight.
 
Yeah, you're probably right. I just keep hoping that one of these days I might actually be able to get through to him.
 
BUT IT'S NOT THE MAIN FOCUS OF THOSE SHOWS EITHER, IT'S JUST ONE ELEMENT LIKE IT WAS IN BUFFY. There maybe that will get through to you.
Trust me, I've watched both Buffy and the first Twilight movie, and Teen Wolf and The Originals have more in common with Buffy than Twilight.


I don't want to argue about it. I'm not trying to insult the people that watch those shows, or even the shows themselves (at the very least I have more respect for them then I do for something like Twilight). From everything I've heard, down to the very premise of those shows, that angsty stuff is the focus. But, again, I don't want to argue. We don't agree about what the content of those shows is closer to, which is fine.

In the end they're not shows I would ever watch, because I hate angsty/romance shows in general, and having supernatural elements doesn't change that.There is nothing to "get through" to me about, I don't even know why this became an argument. I wasn't calling those shows bad, just that I personally dislike those types of shows, and don't like seeing them compared to shows I do like that are nothing like them.That's it. I don't care if those shows like Teen Wolf or The Originals exist, and even though I don't like that kind of show I have nothing against them specifically.
 
Except you called them garbage and got offended just because I dared to say they were like Buffy.
If you rip on shows I like, I'm going to defend them, especially when you are mistaken in your assumptions, it's up to you if you want to respond to me or not. And when I know you're wrong, I'm going to continue to try to explain to you why you are, with the hope that you might actually pay attention to what I'm saying.
 
Calling them "garbage" would be meant as what I, based on my likes and dislikes, would think of them, not a objective opinion. But, I mostly tried to stay away from that.

As for the comparison, I'd also be offended if you compared Buffy to, I don't know, Smallville, and I liked that show despite the angsty teenish early seasons (although I wouldn't defend the high school era seasons as "good" or anything approaching it). Its more comparing Buffy to angsty supernatural romance type shows that offends me, not Teen Wolf specifically and not because of any opinion on the objective quality of Teen Wolf or shows like it. When it comes to what I personally like or dislike, that stuff is some of the stuff I hate the most, while Buffy is just a generally awesome show, so when they're compared, and wrongly in my opinion, I'm going to dispute that.

I am paying attention to what you're saying, I just don't agree, and on this topic we'll never agree.
 
Oh, my fucking god. It's not fucking wrong.
How many episodes of Teen Wolf have you actually watched?
 
I'm done arguing about freaking Teen Wolf. Its gotten beyond ridiculous. Watch what you like, I honestly don't give a damn. I don't need to keep repeating how inaccurate it is to compare the angsty supernatural drama to Buffy until my fingers fall off. Outside of being a bit offended by the comparison, I really don't care.
 
OK fine, but will you at least admit that I might actually have a better idea of what the show is like, since I've actually watched 86 episodes of it?
 
I'm not going to agree with your comparison of Teen Wolf to Buffy, if that's what you're trying to get at. In that respect it doesn't really matter how many episodes of Teen Wolf you've seen. Outside of what I consider a terrible comparison, I'm sure you've seen more then enough of the show to form your opinion, which obviously differs from mine and outside of arguing against comparing TW to Buffy I don't want to discuss a show like TW. I don't care about shows like Teen Wolf, and arguing about them is not a way that I want to spend my time. I'd rather just go back to ignoring shows like that.
 
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This isn't a matter of opinion, it is a fact that they are the same time of show.
You do this constantly, and I'm not letting you get away with it this time.
 
Well, I completely disagree, but I've also passed the point of caring. I've defended Buffy, and I'm done talking about angsty MTV dramas for awhile. People have a right to their own opinions, and since I've made mine clear when it comes to comparing Teen Wolf to Buffy, there is nothing left to be said about that.
 
Accept that you're wrong.
For someone who doesn't want to talk about it any more, you sure can't seem to shut up about it.
 
I'm not wrong. Also, I did make this thread, so I'll admit to being a bit obsessive about responding to it. Based on your post though, we're obviously going past civility so it shouldn't be hard to bow out now (while making it clear that I'm not conceding the argument, just admitting the futility of arguing the issue any further).
 
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