Spoilers DC TV Arrow/Flash Universe Crossover Discussion

[kirk55555]

I don't know if I'd just write it off like that . Musicals tend to deal a lot with characters' emotions and personal issues, so I wouldn't be surprised if we got some fairly significant developments in The Flash episode. Just look how important Once More, With Feeling was to Buffy's story arc.

Once More with Feeling is a huge exception, in my opinion its the only good non-animated musical. But, I think Flash's will be more like the second of the two unwatchable musicals Xena had (specifically Lyre, Lyre Hearts on Fire). That was just a bunch of badly done licensed songs in an episode that had no point and with a stupid story on top of that. That seems like the kind of musical Flash will have, except it might mention some elements of ongoing plots. Besides, I imagine they know they'll have a chunk of their audience tuning out for the musical, so nothing big will happen. Even Buffy didn't put any story changing things in the episode, just a few revelations about character relationships, and Flash doesn't have any stuff like that at the moment.

 

[Christopher]

I understand that NPH was the first person to voice him on TB&TB, but I don't really see where it has to be him. Sure it would have been cool to see him do it, but there are plenty of other talented actors who could also do a good job, like Criss.

Not so much "has to" as "ideally would be." For me, it's just because he has a really great singing voice, and he's also a talented and charismatic actor. He did a great job in the role the first time, and it would've been really cool to see him do more with it, and to realize it in live action. I've always liked the idea of seeing an actor who voiced a role in animation getting to play the role in live action -- although that's not something that actually happens very often.

Wow, that is really cool. I didn't expect them to actually bring in outside people like that to songs for them.

I find that's not unusual in musical episodes of TV series. The shows' composers and writers often have a hand, but if they aren't songwriting people themselves, they sometimes bring in outside contributors to help. Xena's "The Bitter Suite" musical episode did that, for example.

I don't know if I'd just write it off like that . Musicals tend to deal a lot with characters' emotions and personal issues, so I wouldn't be surprised if we got some fairly significant developments in The Flash episode. Just look how important Once More, With Feeling was to Buffy's story arc.

The producers (probably Kreisberg) said that would be the case, that "Duet" would come at a point when both Barry and Kara are dealing with some big things and would help them work through it. I think OMWF was cited as an inspiration.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Oh, you've been reading unreleased scripts again to get to those conclusions?

And no, there were big plot developments in OMWF.

Buffy confronted her unhappiness of being in heaven anymore.
Giles decided to get out of the way to not hold her back anymore.
Tara finds out Willow has been wiping her memory, effectively ending their relationship.
Buffy and Spike KISSING!!!!!
Starting their unholy fuck-buddy-ship.

All defining moments for the rest of the season.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That's fair enough. I don't consider that a good enough reason, and I'd rather have a real episode of the Flash, but its not that hard to skip one week of Flash and a few minutes of Supergirl. Hopefully its a one time thing and won't happen again. It reminds me of older shows that would save money with a clip show. Its not quite the same thing, but its similar in that they waste an episode of a season for dubious reasons, but at least its an episode that can be skipped without consequence.

Actually we've no idea how much of the episode will matter in the scheme of things. Plot lines could very well be moved forward.
Clipshows are usually made to save money. While not ideal, it's hardly dubious. Neither are the reasons for a musical episode

 

[kirk55555]

Actually we've no idea how much of the episode will matter in the scheme of things. Plot lines could very well be moved forward.
Clipshows are usually made to save money. While not ideal, it's hardly dubious. Neither are the reasons for a musical episode

There is no reason to have a musical on a serious superhero show. The only (dubious) reason this is happening (besides the people in charge being idiots) is because a few of the lead actors were in a god awful tween show they almost certainly wouldn't have done if they had better choices available, and one or two of the older supporting actors apparently sang at different times in their careers.

If they have any brains (which itself is dubious, since the people that needs brains still signed off on a musical) they wouldn't put anything important on the episode most likely to get skipped this season. Either way, I doubt Barry will be defeating Savitar in the episode, or even thinking up a plan to do it, and it certainly won't be doing anything for Supergirl because it barely has an ongoing plot outside of Cadmus.

So, maybe Caitlyn will declare her love for Julian, or something equally unimportant, but besides that I'm sure a few sentences on wikipedia will give any infomation that will be just as detailed as the episode, and it will be more efficent because people won't have to sit through a terrible, pointless musical to learn some minor bits of plot.

 

[Romulan_spy]

If they wanted to save money, a clip show would be a better way of doing it than a musical. I get the impression, the producers are doing the musical more out of sheer fun and because they have 2 glee alumni on their shows.

 

[kirk55555]

Ok, I didn't say that a musical would save them money, I only compared the musical to a clip show because both are wastes of an episode slot. Honestly, a clipshow has more reason to exist because it saves money, and The flash could legitimately have a clip show. While it would be lame like all clip shows are, it wouldn't feel like something the show couldn't reasonably do. Unlike a musical, which has no place in shows like The Flash and is as unnatural as the time Family Guy did a mostly jokeless (and poorly done) episode about domestic abuse.

But, in the end, its just a stupid decision, not one that ruins anything. Skip one pointless week of the Flash, then come back the next week having missed nothing isn't hard. Its unfortunate that there will be one less episode of The Flash this season, but that's about the extent of the damage this musical causes. Well, it also makes me think less of the people running the show, but if the normal episodes are still as good as they usually are then that doesn't really matter.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I see your hyperbole is still as strong as ever. If only it could be harnessed for good...

 

[kirk55555]

I see your hyperbole is still as strong as ever. If only it could be harnessed for good...

Whatever. Disagreeing with you doesn't make my opinions "hyperboyle". But like I said, the musical is, in the end, irrelevant. Its just a waste of time, but we'll still get normal Flash episodes after that. A one week interruption to programming is unfortunate, but easily forgotten after its happened. Its annoying and pointless, but not something to get too worked up about, except maybe about the missed opportunity of wasting an episode. I'm excited for the rest of the real Flash episodes this season, and I'm personally not going to make one horrible, but in the end unimportant, mistake bring my excitement for the show down

 

[Nerys Myk]

Whatever. Disagreeing with you doesn't make my opinions "hyperboyle".

No, being over the top ridiculous does.

 

[JD]

Once More with Feeling is a huge exception, in my opinion its the only good non-animated musical. But, I think Flash's will be more like the second of the two unwatchable musicals Xena had (specifically Lyre, Lyre Hearts on Fire). That was just a bunch of badly done licensed songs in an episode that had no point and with a stupid story on top of that. That seems like the kind of musical Flash will have, except it might mention some elements of ongoing plots. Besides, I imagine they know they'll have a chunk of their audience tuning out for the musical, so nothing big will happen.

Well, they won't be using licensed songs or at least not just licensed songs, they just announced that Rachel Bloom, the multi-award winning creator/star of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, and Beni Pasek and Justin Paul, the writers of Lala Land's City of Stars, which is up for an Oscar for Best Song, will be writing original songs for the episode.

Not so much "has to" as "ideally would be." For me, it's just because he has a really great singing voice, and he's also a talented and charismatic actor. He did a great job in the role the first time, and it would've been really cool to see him do more with it, and to realize it in live action. I've always liked the idea of seeing an actor who voiced a role in animation getting to play the role in live action -- although that's not something that actually happens very often.

I get it, I just don't think his presence is a make or break thing.

I find that's not unusual in musical episodes of TV series. The shows' composers and writers often have a hand, but if they aren't songwriting people themselves, they sometimes bring in outside contributors to help. Xena's "The Bitter Suite" musical episode did that, for example.

Sure it is, I just wasn't sure if they were going to go that way with this one.

The producers (probably Kreisberg) said that would be the case, that "Duet" would come at a point when both Barry and Kara are dealing with some big things and would help them work through it. I think OMWF was cited as an inspiration.

I hadn't heard that, but it's good to know.

If they wanted to save money, a clip show would be a better way of doing it than a musical. I get the impression, the producers are doing the musical more out of sheer fun and because they have 2 glee alumni on their shows.

They also have Jesse L. Martin, and they're bringing in Victor Garber who has been in tons of musicals over the years, and John Barrowman, who has done a lot of singing over the years.

 

[kirk55555]

No, being over the top ridiculous does.

I'm not being over the top. But, again, whatever. I don't really care, and I'm done getting worked up.

Well, they won't be using licensed songs or at least not just licensed songs, they just announced that Rachel Bloom, the multi-award winning creator/star of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, and Beni Pasek and Justin Paul, the writers of Lala Land's City of Stars, which is up for an Oscar for Best Song, will be writing original songs for the episode.

That doesn't change my opinion or points about the musical, but fair enough. Actually, using original songs is probably worse, and having a song done by people who worked on THE snobby Hollywood musical (wow, that's a redundant phrase) of 2016? Yeah, ok, its not "probably" worse, it is worse. Buffy had songs written to fit the situations and the story of the episode, and they were all done by the creator of the show, which is why Buffy is the only live action musical I think worked.

But, like I've said above, I'm done. At this point, having worse songs then I expected doesn't matter. I don't want to get worked up about it anymore. I won't be watching Flash's terrible mistake of an "episode", and its silly to talking about it at this point.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm not being over the top. But, again, whatever. I don't really care, and I'm done getting worked up.

Trust me, you are OTT.

 

[JD]

That doesn't change my opinion or points about the musical, but fair enough. Actually, using original songs is probably worse, and having a song done by people who worked on THE snobby Hollywood musical (wow, that's a redundant phrase) of 2016? Yeah, ok, its not "probably" worse, it is worse. Buffy had songs written to fit the situations and the story of the episode, and they were all done by the creator of the show, which is why Buffy is the only live action musical I think worked.

I think this is actually the best way to go about it, bringing in people who have won some of the biggest awards in to write new songs that are made specifically for the show sounds a lot better to me than trying to force in a bunch of pop songs. I don't know if any of the shows writers have ever written songs before, so bringing in people who not only have written songs, but have won awards (OK, technically the songs from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend haven't specifically won awards, but the show has) is a great idea.

But, like I've said above, I'm done. At this point, having worse songs then I expected doesn't matter. I don't want to get worked up about it anymore. I won't be watching Flash's terrible mistake of an "episode", and its silly to talking about it at this point.

Have you actually head the songs from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend or Lala Land? I heard part of one of the LLL songs in the trailer, and I really liked it. I haven't seen any of CEG,so I can't comment on that one.

 

[kirk55555]

Have you actually head the songs from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend or Lala Land? I heard part of one of the LLL songs in the trailer, and I really liked it. I haven't seen any of CEG,so I can't comment on that one.

Well since I hate musicals, along with most music made since a good deal of time before I was born (even though I was born in 1990, I've always hated the music that's usually popular with my age group and younger), I can honestly say its never been remotely tempting to listen to any music from any musical (although I do have the music from Once More With Feeling, but that's a different kind of thing, same with songs from animated tv shows/movies).

Plus, original songs or not, I still hate musicals. Bad original songs are just as bad as pop songs, and since I hate musicals there is no chance I'd like the music in a musical anyway.

 

[Christopher]

I get it, I just don't think his presence is a make or break thing.

Did anyone actually say it was? Preferable doesn't mean obligatory.

 

[dahj]

Arrowverse meets LEGO Batman:

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[N-121973]

Ok, I didn't say that a musical would save them money, I only compared the musical to a clip show because both are wastes of an episode slot. Honestly, a clipshow has more reason to exist because it saves money, and The flash could legitimately have a clip show. While it would be lame like all clip shows are, it wouldn't feel like something the show couldn't reasonably do.

All clip shows? What about 'The Menagerie' or the 'Six Million Dollar Man' season 1 finale 'Run Steve, Run'?

 

[JD]

Did anyone actually say it was? Preferable doesn't mean obligatory.

Kirk55555 did.

 

[dahj]

All clip shows? What about 'The Menagerie

Does The Menagerie even count as a clip show considering the episode from which the clips were taken didn't air for another 20+ years?