Voyager, sorry.... what ? moments.

[Sophie74656]

People have been entertaining themselves just fine for all of human history without having a limitless consequenceless pleasurefield. I'm sure 24th century humans can manage the same.

For most of the show Voyager wasn't low on resources and in those cases it made sense for holodecks to be available. When they were low enough on power to ration food, they can go off.

I don't buy the argument that because holodeck matter is reclaimed it's somehow a zero energy system. First of all, entropy bitchez. Turning energy to matter then reclaiming it is going to have inherent waste. Second of all, running forcefields with fine motor precision and specific textures and manipulating light finely has got to take more energy than just the energy it takes to manifest the matter.

Also it's a little strange the writers never thought of giving the ship the ability to fully repower just by hanging out really near to a star for a little while.

Nobody said the holodeck is a zero energy system. It was theorized that it takes less energy to run a holodeck program than to run the replicator multiple times.

Being able to fully repower themselved by collecting solar energy makes little sense based on how their engine systems work. But in a way ships can, using the Bussar collectors.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Something else bugged me after watching "The Voyager Conspiracy" (if i remember the title correct).
This episode covers about a week time. We see that because 7of9 regenerates multiply times. Every time this enters the cargo hold, goes straight to her alcove and starts the regeneration cycle right away. When it is complete she immediatelly starts working.
She never changes her clothing and there is no indication of any "morning routine". And since she lives in a cargo area I don't think there is a washroom there.
So she has to smell very bad...

I'm not sure she sweats.

 

[LJones41]

Being able to fully repower themselved by collecting solar energy makes little sense based on how their engine systems work. But in a way ships can, using the Bussar collectors.

I'm curious. Is "VOYAGER" the only Trek series that is subjected to such close real world scientific scrutiny? Or do many fans pretend that the others series basically got it right?

 

[Sophie74656]

I'm curious. Is "VOYAGER" the only Trek series that is subjected to such close real world scientific scrutiny? Or do many fans pretend that the others series basically got it right?

I have been on Trek message boards for many years and have participated in threads from every series. Voyager is the only series to be nitpicked to such an extremen. Voyager gets harshly criticized for things that EVERY series has done, like time travel episodes, holodeck episodes and so on.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

I have been on Trek message boards for many years and have participated in threads from every series. Voyager is the only series to be nitpicked to such an extremen. Voyager gets harshly criticized for things that EVERY series has done, like time travel episodes, holodeck episodes and so on.

ST: Voyager was maybe harshly criticized because the series went well beyond of all which had previously been made, which raised questions about some very sensitive (social/ethical) issues the right to life and in the death, the legality of committing a genocide, to give rights to a hologram or a robot, the right to change the course of events, the question of the assisted death, the death penality etc.... Besides, I think that it is exactly the reason why I like so much Voyager. The approached subjects are serious & sensitive and timeless. At the end, it makes you think about life, about rules/principles, about people and even about yourselves,

My only critics were about the lack of balance 1) in the acting, which was uneven (Beltran, Wang vs Mulgrew, Ryan, Picardo, McNeil,Dawson - even if her character was often one-sided as the angry Klingon, what was a little too restrictive) ; 2) the fact that some main characters were not enough (Kes/Tuvok/Neelix) or too much (The EMH) developed/exploited ; 3) too much Kazons, Hirogens and maybe Borgs (I mean, the presence of the children in S6 was not necessary) and too little about Maquis crew (except Chakotay/Torres, Seska, the others were almost invisible -> I would have liked to see more Dalby from "Learning Curve" or Alaya too often in background) , Equinox crew (especially Marla Gilmore & Lessing)and even Starfleet crew ( Sam Wildman, William Telfer, the hypochondriac; Tal Celes, the shy and clumsy Bajoran and the asocial Mortimer Harren).

Just for information, European Parlement wants to make robots, some "electronic people", what means giving them a legal status. So when will the holograms which are created for tributes to dead singers and/or movies?

 

[Prax]

I have been on Trek message boards for many years and have participated in threads from every series. Voyager is the only series to be nitpicked to such an extremen. Voyager gets harshly criticized for things that EVERY series has done, like time travel episodes, holodeck episodes and so on.

I wholeheartedly agree. (Some)People can more easily slip into a "habit of complaining," or fall into an associative bias or groupthink. And there's always that segment of the population who feels elation and satisfaction in shaming others, whether it be Berman, Braga, Lucas, or the entirety of Voyager(or ENT). If they don't take it out on these people/things, they would be taking it out on someone or something else.

I saw a thread on here once about the number of "Holodeck episodes" on each series. The numbers on there were like Voy 15, Tng 7, Ds9 2, Ent 1. I looked through the list on Netflix and found that Tng/Voy/Ds9 all had about 7. Almost all of TNG's were the cliche "holodeck malfunction" and Voyager's were much more diverse and creative. The same is true for time travel episodes. All the series have about one or two per season, they're very diverse and hardly any involve the crew actually travelling back in time.

Or another complaint oft heard is that Voy had too many Borg episodes. Well, that's literally no different than saying TNG had too many Klingon episodes(let alone DS9).

My only critics were about the lack of balance 1) in the acting, which was uneven (Beltran, Wang vs Mulgrew, Ryan, Picardo, McNeil,Dawson - even if her character was often one-sided as the angry Klingon, what was a little too restrictive) ; 2) the fact that some main characters were not enough (Kes/Tuvok/Neelix) or too much (The EMH) developed/exploited ; 3) too much Kazons, Hirogens and maybe Borgs (I mean, the presence of the children in S6 was not necessary) and too little about Maquis crew (except Chakotay/Torres, Seska, the others were almost invisible -> I would have liked to see more Dalby from "Learning Curve" or Alaya too often in background) , Equinox crew (especially Marla Gilmore & Lessing)and even Starfleet crew ( Sam Wildman, William Telfer, the hypochondriac; Tal Celes, the shy and clumsy Bajoran and the asocial Mortimer Harren).

Do you mean the quality of Actors was uneven, as in casting? I think you could say the same for any show. If 7 out of 9 members of the cast are great, and 2 are "good enough," I think that's an above average cast. Chakotay and Kim may have gotten less attention in the last season or two, but they weren't ignored, and still got a few character episodes of their own, every season right up to the end. Janeway by far got the most focus throughout the show.

 

[Tracy Trek]

I'm sure there are episodes of each of the series that should have been nit-picked as much as Voyager. Last night I watched TNG's Realm of Fear (Barclay being afraid of the transporter episode). IMO it totally contradicted everything established about how transporters worked. I'm sure many fans were critical of it. But it does seem like sometimes every little thing about Voyager is just ragged on endlessly and even though the other shows might have made the same mistakes, they are considered wonderful.

 

[manuel]

Some of the critisism is justified i think.
The series has a continues story, the voyage home, but on many occasions that fact is thrown aside when occations in one episode have no effect on the next one.
The ship gets heavy damage in one and in the next it is repaired again.
In many episodes they lose a shuttlecraft,, and so on...

 

[Prax]

Some of the critisism is justified i think.
The series has a continues story, the voyage home, but on many occasions that fact is thrown aside when occations in one episode have no effect on the next one.
The ship gets heavy damage in one and in the next it is repaired again.
In many episodes they lose a shuttlecraft,, and so on...

I often hear this complaint about the ship being damaged. Do you have any examples?

They lose 10 shuttles throughout the series. It's not unreasonable to assume that they can rebuild shuttles. They mention rebuilding a shuttle that's been totalled in one episode. They also built the Delta flyer twice. I'd imagine those shuttles are mostly modular, and the ship certainly would have a supply warehouse with spare parts of the "nonreplacatable" type.

 

[manuel]

I often hear this complaint about the ship being damaged. Do you have any examples?

They lose 10 shuttles throughout the series. It's not unreasonable to assume that they can rebuild shuttles. They mention rebuilding a shuttle that's been totalled in one episode. They also built the Delta flyer twice. I'd imagine those shuttles are mostly modular, and the ship certainly would have a supply warehouse with spare parts of the "nonreplacatable" type.

Killing game

 

[Prax]

Awesome, thanks!

Any others? If it's an isolated incident, then that's 0.58% of all episodes. I can only think of Year of Hell, and history was altered at the end. There's also damage in "Deadlock", but also dialogue referring to repairs.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Some of the critisism is justified i think.

I never said the complaints were not justified. They should have shown them struggling more. They should have shown more lasting consequences for the ship and crew, more tension between the 2 groups. But for better or worse, I like Voyager the best of all the series. I feel like I could relate the characters more I guess.

There are things that could be complained about and liked in any one of the series. TOS is incredibily dated now, but it's the one that started it all. I do like TNG, it captured the spirit of exploration. But sometimes I feel like the characters were in a bit of an ivory tower mentality. I liked the relationship of Sisko and his son in DS9. But I feel like it became too much about politics and war rather than exploration. For Enterprise, well I liked Trip Tucker. I won't get into the negatives. Although we finally got an explanation about the Klingons, which is a good thing I guess.

Sometimes I see questions online about someone wanting to get into Trek who's never seen it (except maybe JJ-Trek). And many time the ones who answer just sing the praises of TNG and DS9, but then tell them VOY isn't worth their time. So is it really, really that bad? Or are people just repeating what everybody else says? Sometime I think VOY suffers from the same problem of fan opinion as the Star Wars prequels.

 

[Sophie74656]

Awesome, thanks!

Any others? If it's an isolated incident, then that's 0.58% of all episodes. I can only think of Year of Hell, and history was altered at the end. There's also damage in "Deadlock", but also dialogue referring to repairs.

There were other times when there was damage that was repaired before the next episode, but do we really need to see it happening? There are often days, or even weeks between when the episodes are taking place so it's a safe assumption that is when the repairs are done. Personally i don't need screen time filled with scenes of someone repairing the hull.

 

[manuel]

There were other times when there was damage that was repaired before the next episode, but do we really need to see it happening? There are often days, or even weeks between when the episodes are taking place so it's a safe assumption that is when the repairs are done. Personally i don't need screen time filled with scenes of someone repairing the hull.

Even when you see Starfleeters repair something, they never actually repair. They always just hover some blinking device over the damaged area and then it's fixed (Not Voyager relatet, happens in all series)

The damages the ship took, could not be repaired on the fly i think, they shoud have stopped at some point and do a complete overhawl.

 

[Sophie74656]

Even when you see Starfleeters repair something, they never actually repair. They always just hover some blinking device over the damaged area and then it's fixed (Not Voyager relatet, happens in all series)

The damages the ship took, could not be repaired on the fly i think, they shoud have stopped at some point and do a complete overhawl.

They did

 

[Prax]

There were other times when there was damage that was repaired before the next episode, but do we really need to see it happening? There are often days, or even weeks between when the episodes are taking place so it's a safe assumption that is when the repairs are done. Personally i don't need screen time filled with scenes of someone repairing the hull.

I just want to know which ones that happens in. For such a common complaint, surely there is more than one instance of it happening.

And yeah, as for "complete ovehauls," there's an episode where they mentioned recently having a "refit" done. I'll try to find it. And they do a complete "refit" again in S7's Nightingale. I believe B'elanna actually refers to it as a "complete overhaul."

 

[Sybok Was Wrong]

I never said the complaints were not justified. They should have shown them struggling more. They should have shown more lasting consequences for the ship and crew, more tension between the 2 groups. But for better or worse, I like Voyager the best of all the series. I feel like I could relate the characters more I guess.

There are things that could be complained about and liked in any one of the series. TOS is incredibily dated now, but it's the one that started it all. I do like TNG, it captured the spirit of exploration. But sometimes I feel like the characters were in a bit of an ivory tower mentality. I liked the relationship of Sisko and his son in DS9. But I feel like it became too much about politics and war rather than exploration. For Enterprise, well I liked Trip Tucker. I won't get into the negatives. Although we finally got an explanation about the Klingons, which is a good thing I guess.

Sometimes I see questions online about someone wanting to get into Trek who's never seen it (except maybe JJ-Trek). And many time the ones who answer just sing the praises of TNG and DS9, but then tell them VOY isn't worth their time. So is it really, really that bad? Or are people just repeating what everybody else says? Sometime I think VOY suffers from the same problem of fan opinion as the Star Wars prequels.

1) Yes, I think it's still the "popular" (easy) thing to say that VOYAGER sucks. Only it doesn't. What it suffered from was being the 4th incarnation. Spoiled viewers could afford to be overly critical and pick favorites.

2) If VOYAGER came out in 1987, and TNG in 1995, TNG would be absolutely trashed.

3) I like the reset button on VOYAGER, and don't want to tune in on random episodes to see a battle damaged Voyager. I don't want to see tension between the two groups. How can you do that without ultimately making the Maqui look unlikable? What would their deep conflict be at that point? And How rewarding is that as a viewer?

You're getting into DS9 territory- where a show is so self-involved, you lose viewers. It's more compelling to have everyone band together as underdogs to get home.

3) I agree! VOYAGER is the best series (after TOS for me!) with her best ensemble of characters and most appealing cast. No other Trek comes close as a group and goes a long way to cheer on these characters!

 

[Sophie74656]

That's exactly it! What would the conflict between starfleet and maquis be about? Whether or not to investigate a nebula? They are people working together to make the best of their situation, working towards a common goal of getting back to the AQ

 

[Sophie74656]

Just noticed a little WTF moment in Thirty Days. In the flashback young Tom has dark brown eyes.

 

[Catarina]

Just noticed a little WTF moment in Thirty Days. In the flashback young Tom has dark brown eyes.

Indeed. I forgot because I chose to ignore it.

And how about that choice for his dad in that episode? Brrr. It really takes it home, how Tom saw his father. I am glad...oh I cannot remember his name! The last guy was Paris dad for a couple of eps to the finale. In fact, glad it was different actors. The last one looked more approachable; Likeable; Misunderstood. The prior ones give the viewers sympathy for Tom and his reason for rebellion.