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Voyager, sorry.... what ? moments.

Scorpion

When Chakotay was quick to break deliberately the last order given by Janeway (before she undergoes an operation) to maintain at all costs the alliance she has spent with Borgs, led by Seven. Then at the end of the episode, while he joins her in the holodeck to talk with her about the Engineering report, he takes advantage of this impromptu face-to-face, to assure her that disobeying her orders was one of the most difficult things he has ever had to do. :wtf:

The truth is that Chakotay disagreed with Janeway since the beginning about the alliance with the Borgs, that he hated as much as Cardassians, if it is not more, especially since his meeting with a colony earlier. And he took advantage of the first opportunity which was offered to him, Janeway's temporary incapacity, to circumvent the orders of his superior officer (for lack of having been able to or knowing how to convince Janeway to follow his idea, I guess), under the pretext that he thas taken a tactical decision... as if Janeway's initial decision has been taken in a moment of temporary madness (for me, she has taken a tactical decision too, whatever it was a good or a right one).
Come one, Chak, your decision was based only on a visceral fear, distrust and loathing of Borgs that even your religious beliefs and human qualitiies have never managed to exceed. Result: it was easier to hide behind the "tactical decision" to justify your behaviour than to recognize your weakness, as if it was going to decrease you in the eyes of Janeway.

It was a stupid move and worst, this episode marked the first scratch in his relationship of trust with Janeway, IMHO. The second being in Equinox with Lessing.

For all the reasons you listed I personally thought this was a good aspect of the episode.

It showed the often lacking human side to Starfleet where everyone is usually protrayed as these ideal human beings.

Chakotay as second officer strongly disagreed with Janeway's command decision even after explaining her reasons. That happens in real life.
He wasn't willing to stage a muntiny over it and probably didn't think he could anyway. But when an oppurtunity arose to circumvent her without attemping a very risky coup and burning all his bridges he seized the chance and took what he felt was the far better course of action.
 
We were never directly told where the Talaxian homeworld is. When Neelix is first encountered it is quite possible he was a long way away from the home planet. It's likely that the colony they encountered wasn't all that far from the homeworld.
 
Most of Voyager's 7th season.
"Talaxians all the way on the other side of the Delta Quadrant? Sure, why not! While we're at it, we'll have Chakotay hook up with 7 of 9!"

The series had already established that many Talaxians had dispersed to many parts of the Delta Quadrant, due to the troubles that had occurred on their homeworld. Neelix was already a refugee when he first met Voyager's crew.

As for Chaokotay and Seven, I didn't mind them as a couple, but I thought their relationship was rushed. And by the way, all of Season Seven was not about Talaxians, Chakotay and Seven.
 
Most of Voyager's 7th season.
"Talaxians all the way on the other side of the Delta Quadrant? Sure, why not! !"
I have absolutely no issue with this. Talaxians have been part of the interstellar community since at least the time of the war that decimitated the Vaadwaur home world.

If Humanity can make it to the Delta Quadrant more than once within 320 years of Zefram Cochrane's warp test, I'll buy bumping into a group of Taxalians 45,000 light years from their world when their people have been warp capable for at least nine centuries.

We know little of how that given group made it within fifteen years...but so did Voyager.... Someone in that group may have known of a territory that could have helped them get so far away that Neelix wasn't aware of. Neelix wasn't exactly a walk encyclopedia concerning his part of the galaxy.

THE PROBLEM is...what?...the odds they bumped into that asteroid like that. Not that there were Talaxians that far out, but that Voyager managed to bump into a little asteroid with a small group of Talaxians that left relatively recently.

I think either Memory Alpha or Ex Astris Scientia has a database of background aliens that apparently popped up in different periods across the galaxy, both on Voyager and in some of the scenes on Enterprise and DS9.
 
We were never directly told where the Talaxian homeworld is. When Neelix is first encountered it is quite possible he was a long way away from the home planet. It's likely that the colony they encountered wasn't all that far from the homeworld.
In "Jetrel" Voyager takes a detour to Rinax, a moon in orbit of Talax, which is in the vicinity of Ocampan, Kazon-Ogla, and Vidiian space.
 
Chakotay as second officer strongly disagreed with Janeway's command decision even after explaining her reasons. That happens in real life.
He wasn't willing to stage a muntiny over it and probably didn't think he could anyway. But when an oppurtunity arose to circumvent her without attemping a very risky coup and burning all his bridges he seized the chance and took what he felt was the far better course of action.

Sorry but,

1) Chakotay didn't react/act with with wisdom here but led by an old visceral fear come from his young years. Result: it failed & worst, he took the risk of alienating 2 enemies (Species 8472 & Borg, which are,with no doubts, the most dangerous of species met in DQ), among which the last ones which have collaborated rather faily - until his decision to end the agreement -,.because they had so much to gain of the past temporary alliance themselves). instead of one, while Janeway has chosen to share knowledge and experience with Borg to fight Species 8472. And even if that tactical decision (to make alliance with a dangerous enemy to get rid of another enemy as much - if not more - dangerous, just to rebalance the strengths*) was maybe risked and certainly unusual, but it worked and, at the end, it's thanks to Seven's iintervention that Voyager managed to get out of the trap, without too much damage at the human level.

* Besides, wasn't Chakotay himself, who has at first, adviced Janeway to act like this, in engaging alliances with different Kazon clans/tribes to thwart Cullean?!)
-> alas, it failed and at the end, Janeway "chastized" ... and we got a speech on Starfleet principles, remember? ;)

2) what bothers me her is that, while Chakotay said to have made his decision, even if he knew that in acting like this, he deliberately circumvented Janeway's orders but at the end of the episode, when the tangible tension between both commanding officers eventually dissipated, he went to apologize to his Capitain, not to have dissolve the alliance spent but to have disobeyed : 'I want you to know that disobeying your orders was one of the most difficult things I've ever had to do").
I mean, wasn't it a little bit hypocritical step from his part knowing that, when he visited her in Sickbay, while she was in the coma - and so, unable to stop him -, he informed her to have made his decision as the higher senio officer in command... and friend, as if he looked for her forgiveness : "Well, I've made my decision. If it were only a matter of going against the orders of my superior officer. You're more than just my Captain. You're my friend. I hope you'll understand").

Come on, while Janeway was out and that he found himself in command of the vessel, he took a decision. No matter that it was a good or a bad one. He made a choice. It was his. So, that he assumes! Why to look for fogiveness, while the other person was unconscious and so, clearly unable to oppose any resistance and/or later, when he went see her to tell her how sorry he was to have acted like he has done? Have you already seen Janeway apologizing for décisions she has made while she was in command? Nope. That she regretted not having been able to act differently knowing what had been the price to pay in human lives (and we know to what extent the well-being of her crew means a lot for her), yes but NEVER, she would have had the idea to go to give forgiveness and/or apologizes with whoever. She assumed, as capitain, all her successes and her failures. She wasn't perfect as an individual but, as a leader, she was a good one for whom the expressions like "take a chance" or "leap in the dark" were foreign to her vocabulary. During 7 years in DQ, she just acted in the interest of his men..., what did not prevent her from making errors.

Plus, you say that "when an oppurtunity arose to circumvent her without attemping a very risky coup and burning all his bridges". Really? We are many to think that this episode was the second one of a long series, where Janeway did not see anymore Chakotay as a man of a total confidence. Her trust in him dissipated in spite of her numerous declarations of friendship and confidence -> did she do that with Tuvok? NOPE. She made him one and only passionate declaration about what their so long friendly relationship represented to her. And even there, she always knew that she could rely on him.

It seems to me that both commanding officers of a vessel have to work together and for that, they have to share a mutual trust, especially in the situation in which Voyager and her crew were, not acting one against the other, like they will often do afterwards. When she says that she respects the decision, she does it considering that Chakotay took it as the only valid commanding officier in command at the relevant time, but she adds quickly after that, still as commanding officer herself, she still disagrees with the decision taken, what means that IF she had been fit to act/react at the relevant time, she would have strongly opposed to him, even if it meant suspending him).

There is a time for the emotions and another one for a conscient leadership and during this lapse of time, it is sometimes necessary to disregard our own feelings because it darkened the judgement.

Anyway, for me - and as we would say here, Chakotay "a joué petits bras" (he ducked underneaths here) and plus, he was wrong AGAIN. My, I know that in books, he was promoted as the Capitain of Voyager but in the series, if Janeway hadn't been fit anymore to command Voyager, the vessel would have been destroyed en route and/or there would have been more human losses (and I don't speak to you about numerous mutinies led by Tuvok and/or Tom/Harry which would have taken place) under his command so much his command decisions were risky during their long journey of 7 years! :devil:
 
We were never directly told where the Talaxian homeworld is. When Neelix is first encountered it is quite possible he was a long way away from the home planet. It's likely that the colony they encountered wasn't all that far from the homeworld.
We were actually told where the Talaxian homeworld is in the episode "Jetrel".

It's located somewhere between the Avery system where Paris, Durst and Torres were captured by the Vidiians and Napinne where Neelix brought onboard something called Schplicht.

OK, since I count the Voyager books too, there are some more planets in the neighborhood like Arbuk and Speria from the book "Incident At Arbuk" and Veruna and Akeras from the book "The Murdered Sun".

Maps can be found at the Kes Website.

But never mind, Talax is very, very, very, very far from that sorry asteroid where poor Neelix ended up.
 
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But never mind, Talax is very, very, very, very far from that sorry asteroid where poor Neelix ended up.
Here's a theory for that. Since the Talaxians were aware of the Vaadwar (not sure about the spelling), you know the ones from Dragon's Teeth. Maybe the Talaxian colonists fell into one of those subspace corridors and ended up thousands of light years away.
 
I think they just needed to find a way to get rid of Neelix and threw the dart at the Dartboard of Options
"It landed on 'Reunite Him With His People'"
 
Janeway met a colony of humans in "The 37's". Talaxians having a colony far from their people isn't that much more of a stretch, surely? Is the origin of the colony established in the episode (it's been years)?
 
Here's a theory for that. Since the Talaxians were aware of the Vaadwar (not sure about the spelling), you know the ones from Dragon's Teeth. Maybe the Talaxian colonists fell into one of those subspace corridors and ended up thousands of light years away.
That's possible. We do have the Ferengi's in "False Profit" too.

King Daniel Beyond
wrote:
Janeway met a colony of humans in "The 37's". Talaxians having a colony far from their people isn't that much more of a stretch, surely? Is the origin of the colony established in the episode (it's been years)?
That's possible too. As for "The 37's", I''ve always liked that episode and I've always thought that it could have been developed further, like Voyager sticking around there for most of season 2 helping those people to build a new Federation in the Delta Quadrant and also having a more realistic process of the Kazon arc than being chased by the same Kazon-Nistrim ovre such a great area inhabited by other hostiile Kazon sects.

However, I must admit that meeting up with Earth people by such a coincidence was a bit unreealistic and the same with those Talaxians on that asteroid. It's like you should go on vacation to the Antarctic continent and happen to run into your childhood friend or neighbor there.

Hey Missy wrote:
I think they just needed to find a way to get rid of Neelix and threw the dart at the Dartboard of Options
"It landed on 'Reunite Him With His People'"
That's the best explanation! :techman:

To be honest, I didn't like that they dumped Neelix at the end of the seventh season. It made him look like a hypocrite. He had promised to stay with Janeway and the crew, no matter what.
 
I loved the Neelix storyline. I didn't have a problem with the Talaxians being there. So many species we've previously encountered in all of the series have colonies on various planets. I don't see an issue with the Talaxians doing it too. I was happy that Neelix had found a place where he could have love.
 
So an actual WTF moment....Just watched Vis a Vis over the weekend. They were able to get that space folding engine installed in a shuttle and it worked, so why didn't they install it on Voyager?
 
Janeway met a colony of humans in "The 37's". Talaxians having a colony far from their people isn't that much more of a stretch, surely? Is the origin of the colony established in the episode (it's been years)?
Yes. They made it clear they left right after the war that killed Neelix's family.
 
^Watching it now.

I just noticed the reflection of the transporter control panel as Tuvok and Janeway came in to greet the fake Steth. No sign of the transporter chief's reflection. She or he would have been standing close enough to have at least some of his/her reflection or shadow visible. Not really a WTF moment, but just something I noticed :)

EDIT: Yep, you are right...no mention of using the shuttle and doing it to Voyager. Yeah, a big WTF.
 
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EDIT: Yep, you are right...no mention of using the shuttle and doing it to Voyager. Yeah, a big WTF.
And of course they probably offered no explanation of why they couldn't use it on the ship.

Instead of just getting back at the last minute in the finale, I wish the whole final season would have been finding some or inventing some tech. they knew would work. But have it be a story arc and take the whole season to get there.
 
And of course they probably offered no explanation of why they couldn't use it on the ship.

Instead of just getting back at the last minute in the finale, I wish the whole final season would have been finding some or inventing some tech. they knew would work. But have it be a story arc and take the whole season to get there.
Maybe not the whole final season but the last handful of episodes. I think that would have been interesting.
 
^Watching it now.

I just noticed the reflection of the transporter control panel as Tuvok and Janeway came in to greet the fake Steth. No sign of the transporter chief's reflection. She or he would have been standing close enough to have at least some of his/her reflection or shadow visible. Not really a WTF moment, but just something I noticed :).
Considering that's about where the camera was situated, does that really surprise you? :D

We were actually told where the Talaxian homeworld is in the episode "Jetrel".

It's located somewhere between the Avery system where Paris, Durst and Torres were captured by the Vidiians and Napinne where Neelix brought onboard something called Schplicht.

OK, since I count the Voyager books too, there are some more planets in the neighborhood like Arbuk and Speria from the book "Incident At Arbuk" and Veruna and Akeras from the book "The Murdered Sun".

Maps can be found at the Kes Website.

But never mind, Talax is very, very, very, very far from that sorry asteroid where poor Neelix ended up.
Well, Talax suffered a serious catastrophe, it shouldn't surprise anyone that a colony of warp-capable refugees would make a new home halfway across the delta quadrant. They could have run into any number of spatial anomalies or pathways or conduits or "shaving-space" that voyager encountered to get where they ended up.
 
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