Watching Arrow for the First Time

[tomalak301]

I've been binge watching Arrow a lot lately. I decided after the Invasion crossover that I was finally going to watch this series and I really liked Seasons 1 and 2. I've made it to Episode 10 of Season 3, "Left Behind", and this was a spot where I was told a lot that the series starts to lose direction. Maybe it was all the Felicity/Oliver stuff, or this season the common thing I've been reading in various reviews has been people's hatred of Laurel, and I think the thing I'm having difficulty with in Season 3 is the series decided to go the mysticism and fantastical approach rather than remain grounded in what is actually happening in Starling City.

When the League of Assassins was first introduced in season 2, I really liked them because it was around Sara Lance, who we had some kind of idea who she was from the pilot. She was like family to the Queen clan, so understanding what she's dealing with was kind of personal to us. I'm starting to think the more we get into the League, the more crazy it's becoming. I just watched the episode where Oliver fights Ra's al Gul, and just ended tonight's binge watching with Tatzu (?) helping to bring him back to life. I'm watching this stuff and my first thought is this doesn't feel like Arrow anymore. It feels like a mix of Arrow and Supergirl, and I'm not sure if the tone is working for me. Arrow is a dark show, dealing with themes of humanity and what it means to be a hero. Supergirl is a lighter show, dealing with an alien who lost her home and has to adapt to life on Earth, while also fighting other aliens and people who want to bring her down.

Then there is Malcolm and his character has really changed direction since season 1. I loved the fact that he was a businessman who was really good with a bow and arrow. He was cunning, quick, and manipulative. I'm fine with him being part of the League, but understanding that is taking away something else from his character. Now he's training Thea and it almost feels more mystical than real, if that makes any sense.

Don't get me wrong, I am still enjoying the show and I'm excited to see where this all goes but it feels like the show had this sudden shift in direction and I'm starting to see why people might be turned off by it. I still like these characters (yes, even Felicity and Laurel) and I think Laurel's story has been a lot better this season than last season so far. I think her shift to being a Canary has actually be nicely written and now with Arrow out of the picture, it was nice to see a vigilante somewhat take over.

I'm hoping I enjoy the rest of the season, but yeah this is a step down from Season 1 and 2.

 

[Gaith]

What ended up ticking me off about Arrow S3, after also loving the first two years, is that the League was never really defined. There may have been a casual mention or two that they only selectively Assassin-ate really bad people, but by the end of the season, that's proved to be not particularly credible, and when an entire season is built around them, the vagueness really eats away at a viewer. And then the fourth season just goes up its own ass, soap-opera-melodramatics-wise.

I agree that one of the strengths of S2 was that it still mostly felt like a show about people, especially Laurel and Quentin's issues with alcoholism. By halfway through S4, such everyday concerns are pretty much completely forgotten. (Malcolm is a particular case in point, as his writing and motivations are just all over the place.) I've heard some good things about S5, but S4 got so mind-numbingly boring I jumped ship and haven't looked back.

If you think S3 strays from the show's grim and gritty roots, however, just wait until you get to the Legends of Tomorrow setup of S4. I enjoyed most of that, as well as LoT S1, but hoo boy, is it far from original flavor Arrow.

 

[dahj]

the thing I'm having difficulty with in Season 3 is the series decided to go the mysticism and fantastical approach rather than remain grounded in what is actually happening in Starling City.

Then you're gonna love Season 4

I kinda liked Season 3, the biggest issue I had with it is the at times really contrived drama, and that should be somewhat alleviated if you're binging it because you can just power through it. Season 4 just went all in and upped the ante on the drama, and ended up being somewhat repetitive and very poorly planed out. I'm really curious to hear how it plays out on a binge. The first part of the season was actually pretty decent as I recall it, but they just whiffed the second part.

Season 5 however has been great so far.

 

[tomalak301]

I kinda liked Season 3, the biggest issue I had with it is the at times really contrived drama, and that should be somewhat alleviated if you're binging it because you can just power through it. Season 4 just went all in and upped the ante on the drama, and ended up being somewhat repetitive and very poorly planed out. I'm really curious to hear how it plays out on a binge. The first part of the season was actually pretty decent as I recall it, but they just whiffed the second part.

I think this show could be defined as "really contrived drama". There's always been contrived drama (especially in Season 2, like when they flashed back to a cure to the Mirikuru virus like 5 episodes after they were actually supposed to) but it was still pretty exciting and made watching the series fun. With this League storyline, the series feels so very different and considering this season's big bad is Ra's al Gul, I have a feeling this is the direction they go in for the rest of the season. Also, they brought Oliver back way too easily. He gets stabbed in the ribs, gets his ass kicked, and how far was that fall? Not only that, but they ignored the fact that they were fighting in the snow and never brought up the whole risk of hypothermia or something.

 

[Gaith]

^ Yeah, that was the mid-season finale, and we were all pretty sure he was dead and would need the Lazarus Pit to bring him back. The fact that some tea and a pep talk did the trick was pretty weak sauce. In fact, I'd pin it as the exact moment where the show's quality began a slow but definite trend downwards...

 

[Mage]

Working my way (slowly) through season 4, which is quite hard at times. I want to really like it, but I dunno..... Season 3 was, to me, not as bad as some felt it was, but I did certainly liked it a lot less than seasons 1 and 2. Mostly, I'm working my way through 4 to get to 5, which I've been hearing better things about.

 

[tomalak301]

Working my way (slowly) through season 4, which is quite hard at times. I want to really like it, but I dunno..... Season 3 was, to me, not as bad as some felt it was, but I did certainly liked it a lot less than seasons 1 and 2. Mostly, I'm working my way through 4 to get to 5, which I've been hearing better things about.

Thats basically where I am with Season 3, 11 episodes in. It's still decent, but the drop in quality is noticeable. Of course maybe I'm just missing Slade, who after thinking about it for a while after I finished season 2 was a great villain.

 

[theenglish]

The new season is pretty good. But in the third and fourth seasons the series just got caught up in its stories and never really delivered. Poorly planned. I agree that season three lost it after the fight with Ras but I was still happy with the conclusion to the season. Season four was the reverse. It started off well and then just got bogged down toward the end

I am still confused as to what characters they are allowed to use or not. I was hoping for a suicide squad spin off at one point.

One thing I would like to see is an edit of the flashbacks for each season so you can watch them as a seamless story. The flashbacks for the first three seasons seem like they would hold up pretty well as their own story.

 

[Phoenix219]

I've always joked that if i had the attention span and skills, that I would love to stitch together a fan edit of the flashbacks.

That motivated version of me would also make a "Young Homer" Simpsons movie doing the same thing.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

For me, the League of Assassins arc was actually good at exploring a lot of the sub-issues. If you were in control of the League of Assassins, would you do something really incredible for the greater good of humanity, would you do something selfish, or would you say fuck it and walk away? What you see in Arrow is what Oliver chose. Maybe you would choose something else, but it was a valid story, and a very good one.

 

[tomalak301]

Watched up to "The Offer" last night. I learned something from this block of episodes. I always thought Ra's al Gul was the name of the guy, but Arrow makes it seem like it's a title of the head of the League. I'm still not quite clear about why Ra's wants Oliver to take his place, but hopefully that becomes clear in the next few episodes. I have to say though all these problems could have been taken care of had Malcolm just stayed as prisoner of the league. Why Oliver wants to keep him alive I have no idea. Seems like Thea solved everyone's problems and this was a "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it", kind of deals.

Also, I have to talk about Felicity here. When I started this, I got people basically telling me that I was going to hate Felicity the deeper I get into the show. While I haven't liked this dark path she's been through for the last few episodes, I think it's been a pretty realistic portrayal of someone who has become kinda the leader of the group in Oliver's absense. Maybe this was to Diggle's detriment, but if you think about her character all the way through, she has been grounded in "normalcy" and even said when she joined that she didn't want to be a part of a group that put Killing as a top priority. Honestly, I think she's been the one character in the back half of the season that's made the most sense, even though I can do without the Angst. Also, her scenes with Ray really is the Felicity I like the most, kind of that dorky loveable friend who creates easy passwords (I liked that whole part of the episode). As for this whole Olicity thing, I honestly think it's not nearly as bad as Barry and Iris on The Flash. Heck, they've barely spent anytime this season together. It's been more Pal-licity than Ol-licity. I do think Brandon Routh has been great on the show though, and he might be my favorite storyline of this season when all is said and done.

 

[tomalak301]

I think I know why many don't like Season 3. One Sentence: "Are you OK".

God how many times did they ask that question this season. Maybe it's not as bad watching it from week to week, but man it sure gets repetitive.

And Oliver and Felicity having sex in Ra's Al Gul's bed. Now that is pandering. Need some Felicity/Barry friendship after watching that.

 

[Gaith]

I think I know why many don't like Season 3. One Sentence: "Are you OK".
God how many times did they ask that question this season. Maybe it's not as bad watching it from week to week, but man it sure gets repetitive.

Pfft, you think that's bad, just wait until you get to Digg's views on a certain recurring character in S4. Every ep, he thinks the exact opposite of what he thought the ep before - with maddening certainty every damn time.

 

[dahj]

I think I know why many don't like Season 3. One Sentence: "Are you OK".

That's not just a S3 thing though, it's been a running gag for a while now, I'm pretty sure they're doing it on purpose, kinda like "I've got a bad feeling about this" in SW.

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(might wanna hold of on watching the entire thing till you're done with S3, but you'll get the gist of the video from the first few seconds )

 

[tomalak301]

That's not just a S3 thing though, it's been a running gag for a while now, I'm pretty sure they're doing it on purpose, kinda like "I've got a bad feeling about this" in SW.

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(might wanna hold of on watching the entire thing till you're done with S3, but you'll get the gist of the video from the first few seconds )

I just watched 30 seconds of that and just started laughing.

 

[JD]

I made it about 2:00 before I couldn't take it any more. I honestly never noticed that before.

 

[Christopher]

I always thought Ra's al Gul was the name of the guy, but Arrow makes it seem like it's a title of the head of the League.

In the comics, it is the adopted name of a single man who's lived for hundreds of years due to the Lazarus Pit. The movie Batman Begins, which was set in a (theoretically) more realistic world, changed it into a title passed down from one leader to the next. Arrow's version is a blend of both.

 

[tomalak301]

Finished Season 3 tonight. I almost think they should have stopped after Season 3. The series feels wrapped up, Felicity and Oliver are happy, and the series can end with the memory of what it once was, where the urgency was high, the threats were real and well written, and the City is safe, again.

In all honesty I'm 2 years behind and I know there's two more seasons to catch up on. I know Oliver comes back because of the 4 series/episode crossover, and I know he dons the arrow suit again. In a way, I'm glad that didn't end on a cliffhanger but this season struggled a lot, especially the back half. I'm not sure if I mentioned it here or if I started this thread after I thought this, but the League of Assassins plot line really brought the show down from a threat aspect. One of the things I loved about the first two seasons was while there were fantastical elements (The Mirikuru virus), it seemed grounded in reality. The League of Assassins plot really brought the show into the supernatural and I'm not sure if it was a good fit. Also this story seemed to drag out a lot, and I think it could have been a really good plot on like a 15 episode order and not a 23 episode order.

Also, what I didn't like about this season was all the angst. I've been told over and over that if I liked Felicity in the first two seasons and The Flash, I will grow to hate her at the end of the season. I can actually see that, but I don't "hate" Felicity. I'm sad for Felicity, that the writers decided to take this great character who was full of fun and "adorkableness" and brought in a lot of unneeded angst and sad faces. I mentioned last night that we needed a Felicity/Barry scene after the sex scene, but in reality, we need a reset for this character to be fun again. I like the actress, and I like the good times where we saw Felicity not be so angsty, and I will choose to remember those times. The Felicity at the end of the season doesn't even feel like the same character anymore. Maybe like Oliver, she also became something else.

There were good things about this season, such as Quentin Lance is always a treat. (I loved his line, "The city is under attack, it must be May" ) I loved his arc in general, and while he was portrayed as a bit of an idiot during the capturing of Oliver stuff, he portrayed Ahab pretty well. Also, I kinda stopped watching various episodes of The Flash that tied to Arrow, but I'm assuming he and Laurel did reconcile somehow.

Speaking of Flash, I've now see every single Flash scene under Gustin's tenure. I was kinda spoiled on the escape scene before, but I thought it was a fun scene, and we got fun Felicity back. Man can we just get Felicity and Berry to just have like a 2 season sitcom friend series? I would watch it. Also, I'm confused about something. I vaguely remember it until I read up on it after watching the episode, but when exactly did Oliver, as the Arrow come to help Barry deal with Reverse Flash. He gave up the Arrow suit, played the role of Al Shaim, and now is going off on a honeymoon with Felicity. When exactly did he have time to put all that aside and help deal with Eobard?

Overall, I'd probably give the season a B, B-. It wasn't nearly as good as the first two seasons, but I was entertained to the point where I was binge watching the series to the finale. I can definitely understand why this is no longer the Arrow of the first two seasons though, but I'm going to catch up with everyone else (watching season 5 in june when Netflix gets it). I wonder where the Flashbacks will go now. I'm not entirely sure they are needed anymore, but that's the format of the show.

 

[Turtletrekker]

.

Speaking of Flash, I've now see every single Flash scene under Gustin's tenure.

Barry appears in Arrow S4 in episodes other than the crossover.

 

[tomalak301]

Barry appears in Arrow S4 in episodes other than the crossover.

Well, it's something to look forward to then. Still, issues with continuity might start to become a thing every time he shows up or any of the Arrow cast shows up on Flash.