• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Why is there resistance to the idea of Starfleet being military?

Status
Not open for further replies.
But that last would be the interpretation of the person who wrote the entry in the Star Trek Encyclopedia. I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong, however there are other ways of looking at the canon evidence.

Like Romulan Loyalist already has said, that would be Michael Okuda. So it's not exactly canon but that kinda makes it official. That's why it's also in startrek.com:

Amasov, Captain
Commander of the U.S.S. Endeavour, the only other Starfleet ship to survive the Borg incursion at Wolf 359. In Amasov's opinion, the Borg represented "pure evil."

Your mileage may vary, of course.
 
One thing is, we know the Admiral managed to gather up 40 starships by the time Riker reported in about their stalling the Borg. He also said that was just for starters. While we don't know if the Klingon ships arrived in time, we also don't know if more Federation starships arrived before the Borg did. What we know is that 39 starships were destroyed, and that by the time USS Enterprise arrived, no functional ships were around anymore, nor were their any life signs present in the battlefield. Whatever allied ships survived the battle took the hours between the Borg leaving and the Enterprise arriving to pick up survivors and left the area. The Enterprise was about a half a day or so behind the Borg as it took a long time to repair their navigation deflector and other systems after having engaged the Borg in a cat and mouse chase. It seems that the Borg took damage during the battle and has to regenerate the cube, which is why the Enterprise was able to catch up following passing through Wolf 359. It is also possible that their were salvageable starships in the mess and that those were some of the ships Picard would later take to the blockade of the Romulan-Klingon border during the Klingon Civil War.
 
^ But that last would be the interpretation of the person who wrote the entry in the Star Trek Encyclopedia. I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong, however there are other ways of looking at the canon evidence.
At some point Occam's Razor comes into play. The Endeavor surviving Wolf 359 is the simplest explanation, therefore the correct one.
 
At some point Occam's Razor comes into play. The Endeavor surviving Wolf 359 is the simplest explanation, therefore the correct one.

While I prefer that explanation, there's no connection in canon, and, furthermore, we don't even know if the TV show represented every single Borg incident in the Star Trek universe. There are other ships out there, having their own adventures.

So, is the theory likely? Yes. Is it a fact? Heck, no. (Even the Encyclopedia authors, who present a lot of conjectural material as fact in that book made it clear that it was only a theory and might not be the correct answer.
 
And if we don't get a film or series that takes place after Wolf 359, (nor some time travel shenanigans in Discovery don't come from that era) we will never have a canon answer to the question, so we go with the conjectural implication of it being USS Endeavor until contradicted or confirmed by canon. As that is the best we have at this point.
 
Well, there could have been a Defiant in the fleet at 359, which survived but was heavily damaged and subsequently scraped, and Starfleet recycled the name for the DS9 Defiant.
 
That's entirely possible in speculation of course.... Defiant after all, is just a name. Most only associate it with the DS9 and later variant.

However - to be thorough there are only 3 instances of the Defiant known in Canon at this point..

1. NCC-1764 USS Defiant - Constitution Class missing 2268 (Tholian Web incident - found in Mirror Universe - etc etc..)
2. NX-74205 USS Defiant - First Defiant Class - built after Wolf 359 and destroyed 2375
3. NCC-75633 USS Defiant - The one assigned to DS9 to replace the NX - was originally the Sao Paulo
 
Last edited:
3. NCC-75633 USS Defiant - The one assigned to DS9 to replace the NX - was originally the Sao Paulo
That one actually also had its registry changed to NX-74205. Granted, this is a result of all its scenes being stock footage from prior episodes, it is considered official enough that even the novels set after the series refer to the new Defiant's registry being NX-74205. Although, had the production crew had the time/money to make a new registry for the ship, they were going to go with NCC-74205-A.
 
So here's some interesting food for thought, was recently watching Hide and Q, a TNG episode written by Roddenberry, where Starfleet actually is referred to as a military. Or does the fact that it's Q somehow negate things?
 
So here's some interesting food for thought, was recently watching Hide and Q, a TNG episode written by Roddenberry, where Starfleet actually is referred to as a military. Or does the fact that it's Q somehow negate things?

What was the line?
 
PICARD: You interfered with our Farpoint mission. You threatened to convict us as ignorant savages, if, while dealing with a powerful and complex life forms, we made the slightest mistake, and when that didn't happen
Q: The Q became interested in you. Does no one here understand your incredible good fortune? Seized my vessel. These are the complaints of a closed mind too accustomed to military privileges.
I suppose there's wiggle room of Starfleet not directly being referred to as military, but Picard is essentially described as a military person, from Roddenberry no less.
 
It looks like the original Star Trek Writers/Directors Guide (1967), although dated, has the answer to your question on page 27 (page 30 in a document viewer):

Is the starship U.S.S. Enterprise a military vessel?

Yes, but only semi-military in practice -- omitting features which are heavily authoritarian. For example, we are not aware of "officers" and "enlisted men" categories. And we avoid saluting and other annoying medieval leftovers. On the other hand, we do keep a flavor of Naval usage and terminology to help encourage believability and identification by the audience. After all, our own Navy today still retains remnants of tradition known to Nelson and Drake.​

It is clear that the original idea behind Star Trek was that the concept of military was an "annoying medieval leftover", and that Starfleet supposedly "evolved" from it.

It is also worth noting that the main Star Trek antagonists, Klingons, were portrayed as sort of skewed medieval space aliens. This is why their vests in TOS resembled chainmail and why they have been so fond of using melee weapons in general.

Something else worth of note is the following part on the same page:

The mission of the U.S.S. Enterprise? Isn't it something like that of, say, English warships at the turn of the century?

Very close. As you recall, in those days vessels of the major powers were assigned to sectors of various oceans, where they represented their government there. . . .​

I think the term everyone is looking for is "paramilitary", which is any organization with a military-like structure, such as the police or peacekeepers.

Starfleet is definitely not a paramilitary, especially when there is no official Federation military to be "para-" to. This is proven by a couple of things. First, there is the following line of dialogue from TNG: "Preemptive Strike":

PICARD: Starfleet does not condone the Maquis' actions in the Demilitarised Zone any more than your government would condone the paramilitary actions of Cardassian civilians.​

Second, the Maquis have been officially defined as a paramilitary group in The Star Trek Encyclopedia, which has the following description at Memory Alpha:

The Star Trek Encyclopedia - A Reference Guide to the Future is the "definitive" Star Trek reference book, compiled by the production staff and officially licensed and endorsed by Paramount Pictures/CBS Consumer Products.​

The same reference book does not define Starfleet as paramilitary.

As far as reference books go, the article at Wikipedia: Star Trek canon has the following to say:

A special case is made for "non-fiction" reference books such as The Star Trek Encyclopedia, Star Trek Chronology, TNG Technical Manual and DS9 Technical Manual. Unlike the novels and novelizations, these reference manuals have never been explicitly named as non-canon, and the fact that they were officially sanctioned by Paramount and given to episode writers as guides serves to give them an aura of credibility. Roddenberry himself considered it part of the "background" of Star Trek. Meanwhile, Michael Okuda and Rick Sternbach, two art and technical consultants since Star Trek: The Next Generation and the authors of several of these reference books, considered their work "pretty official". However, they stop short of naming the books canon, leaving the debate open.

Star Trek writer and co-producer Ronald D. Moore dismisses such official material as "speculation", and says that the writing staff did not consider it canon. However, Viacom, the parent company of Paramount, seems to believe differently. In a series of posts to the official Star Trek website's forums, Viacom Senior Director Harry Lang left no doubt that he considers the reference books as canon.​

Then, of course, Starfleet has JAG and court-martial, which are unique to a military organization.

That is all. Bye! :)
 
Then you get Star Trek 2009 and Starfleet is referred to as a a "humanitarian and peacekeeping armada" but JJ Trek is supposed to be reboot Trek and not real Trek according to some fans.

Ok I'm wandering off now ...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top