Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 2

[Phoenix219]

YES he does.
Miami Vice wasn't so much of a thing by late 1987 but I guess I'll allow it. I'm almost surprised Ray didn't get a talking car. (Routh was 8 years old in 1987. Do we know how old Palmer was?)

Oh, and does ANYONE look back on 1987 TNG fondly? >

Miami Vice aired new episodes until 1990.

 

[Phoenix219]

Nate's method of stopping the train was odd -- I thought the goal was to prevent the tracks from being destroyed. I guess the key was where they were destroyed, since that pass was supposedly the only way through the Rockies. (Or maybe it really was? I dunno.)

I was under the impression that they were going to blow up the dwarf star matter on the pass through the Rockies, covering the area with rubble and debris making it impossible for anything to get through. It wasn't about a little bit of railroad tracks that can be rebuilt - it was about the mountain pass as a whole.

 

[Commander Richard]

Two new develpments from The Flash 3x08 Invasion crossover...

Spoiler

Ray got a new suit and Stein does indeed have a daughter.

I'm surprised that they put those on The Flash.

 

[cylkoth]

Well, the revelation that Oliver had a kid was also first made on The Flash, (not to mention Diggle now having a son rather than daughter) so, they seem to be establishing a tradition.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I'm of the school of thought that superheroes shouldn't kill as a general rule, but movies and TV rarely go along with that -- except in a few cases like Daredevil mostly, Ant-Man more or less (there may have been some unconscious goons left in the building when it was destroyed, but it's hard to tell), Luke Cage, and Supergirl until this week. You're right that the Legends should have an additional incentive to avoid it, but this show has never bothered to make sense in any other way.

Maybe it's the "City on the Edge of Forever" idea -- Edith Keeler being saved changes the whole future, but some random bum disintegrating himself has no impact. (An idea that was made more overt in the original script.) Maybe the premise is that there are only some people that have large-scale, lasting effects on history, and in other cases the changes are damped out by other historical factors and thus have no long-term impact. Poul Anderson used that premise in his Time Patrol prose series starting in the '50s (and extending into the '90s) -- and, as I've been trying to explain in the Timeless thread, there's actually some recent scientific/mathematical analysis supporting that idea. There's also the related idea in modern Doctor Who of "fixed points in time" -- which is different in that it refers to key events that can't be changed no matter what, but similar in that it implies that most other historical events can be altered without having a critical impact on later history. It's a handy conceit for a lot of time travel stories to use, because it frees the writers from having to be too careful about small-scale changes.

That was basically stated outright last season. In the first appearance of Kronos in 2016, a few random people spot him and he decides to eliminate them, but before he fires he scans them to determine if its safe to remove them from the timeline or not. So some people matter to history and some don't. The problem with the Legends' approach, of course, (other than being way too casual about killing in general) is that they never bother to find out who it is they're killing.

season 2 is a weird duck so far. it's both better and worse than season 1. i'm glad we're not subjected to vandal savage every episode, but I also don't like how standalone-y it's been thus far. we were promised the JSA and the Legion of Doom, but the JSA were just in one episode really, and the Legion has barely been in it thus far. also, I really miss Rip Hunter and Captain Cold. I just don't feel like there's a standout character anymore. White Canary just doesn't make it as a lead. but i am really excited at the thought of the proper Legion eventually appearing. I just can't get into "random time travel adventure" though.

Personally, I think Sarah's been a far better captain than Rip ever was, and Snart was always a little too over the top to begin with. Back in the beginning when Mick was basically just an angry moron, I preferred Snart over him. Now that Mick's gotten plenty of real development of his own, though, I'd say he's a better character than Snart ever was. And Amaya and Nate are unquestionably vast improvements over the hawks. I also think the episodic nature of this season so far is a much better fit for this show, anyway. If only they would stop inserting blatantly idiotic plot details, I'd say this show has finally graduated to the big leagues. But I get the feeling the writers don't really care about how stupid anything is, so that part probably won't ever happen.

 

[Commander Richard]

2x07... The Invasion! continues.

The Legends installment was by far my favorite of the trilogy. It had a good balance of action and character drama and it was well paced. It had some good humor too. The only thing I didn't like was the invasion itself. For such a big world-changing event, it didn't feel grant but that's par for the course.

I was surprised though that we didn't get any interaction between Ollie and the new Vixen. It didn't seem appropriate in last night's Arrow but there was an opportunity here.

I was also surprised to see Mick standing with the new President and the rest on the stage. Isn't he a wanted criminal? Or did he get a pardon?

 

[Degra1]

This was pretty entertaining although the dominator a retreat was kind of anticlimactic. Hard to believe that pain was enough to drive them out. And even if it was there's nothing to stop another attempt on Earth in the future

Also the whole point of traveling into the past was to bring an alien back to 2016 to study yet they let him go. Doesn't make much sense. And why not ask Gideon for weaknesses of the dominators in her database

This just cements the fact that Oliver is a miserable character in every sense of the word.

 

[Christopher]

This was a terrific conclusion. Each of the other parts was more of a piece with its own series than with the others, but this featured characters and threads from Flash and Arrow as heavily as the LoT characters. Indeed, it felt more like a Flash episode than an LoT episode, because Barry and Flashpoint were the catalyst of the whole thing, and because it featured Cisco so heavily and actually resolved his conflict with Barry in a different show. That's pretty remarkable.

Supergirl was still a bit underused, though -- until the end. Kara was more awesome in the last five minutes in civilian garb than she was in three episodes in the cape. But the Earth-1 heroes were as integrated as a single cast as they've ever been, and it was awesome. Felicity and Cisco are a great pairing, Oliver and Barry are pretty good too, it's good to see Oliver and Sara bonding again, Caitlin was a good adviser for Martin, and so on.

There were some terrific in-jokes. Ray saying Kara looked like his cousin is still cracking me up when I think about it. (A lot of people expected her to say he looked like her cousin. Neat that they went against expectations.) Felicity worked in a "This looks like a job for Supergirl" just moments after I said it to the screen (though I was talking about the Meta-Bomb). And when Felicity was suffering time-travel aphasia, the last thing she said was "Darmok and Jalad at Tenagra!" Then there's Kara calling them "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" (Marvel's lawyers would like a word with you, Ms. Danvers), and who knows what else I'm forgetting.

I'm glad the solution they found to the invasion was nonlethal. It bothered me a few weeks ago that Supergirl made an exception to Kara's policy against killing, and I was troubled by the preview descriptions saying that the heroes were looking for a way to "kill" the Dominators. So I'm glad the ending didn't go that route. Not only for Supergirl's sake, but because, really, the Dominators kinda have a point. They weren't here to destroy arbitrarily, they were here to protect themselves against a perceived threat. And technically Barry was the one who inadvertently broke the treaty. So killing them all for what they perceived as an act of self-defense (albeit an overly extreme and murderous one) would've been kind of a jerk move.

They've dealt with the alternate-Earths issue pretty much the way I expected -- not only giving Team Flash a way to cross to Kara's universe, but giving her a way to cross over and communicate with the other heroes on her own initiative. Which opens the door for more frequent interactions and guest appearances. I'm hoping that means someday we'll get to see Winn interact with Cisco, Felicity, or both.

 

[Commander Richard]

Each of the other parts was more of a piece with its own series than with the others, but this featured characters and threads from Flash and Arrow as heavily as the LoT characters.

Given the ensemble nature of the show, I expexted it. I just didn't expect it to be so well put together.

...it featured Cisco so heavily and actually resolved his conflict with Barry in a different show. That's pretty remarkable.

I'm surprised that they didn't do that on The Flash. What about the people who don't watch all the shows? Guess they'll have to tune in to Legends of Tomorrow now.

There were some terrific in-jokes. Ray saying Kara looked like his cousin is still cracking me up when I think about it. (A lot of people expected her to say he looked like her cousin. Neat that they went against expectations.)

What you're suggesting would have worked better if we hadn't seen Hoechlin.

And when Felicity was suffering time-travel aphasia, the last thing she said was "Darmok and Jalad at Tenagra!"

Very appropriate and it's nice to know that Felicity likes TNG. Hard to believe that show was before her time.

I'm hoping that means someday we'll get to see Winn interact with Cisco, Felicity, or both.

It'll be nice to see Winn meet the gang. Love triangle!

 

[Jax]

It was good and overall the trilogy or 4 parter (depends how you see it) was a good TV story for the combined DC Verse. There were some issues like how quick the professor mass produced such an item and The Dominators just leaving + Supergirl was WAY WAY underused. However I loved that the reason the Dominators came in 2016 was because of the Legends in the 50's saving that one alien and of course Barry Allen's powers to boot scaring them. I would of liked to see a bigger final battle but this is a TV budget of course so hopefully the next crossover will be even bigger.

So the planet seemed very calm afterwards despite Aliens appearing all over the world lol

There were some terrific in-jokes. Ray saying Kara looked like his cousin is still cracking me up when I think about it.

I didn't get the reference at first, Brandon is more Atom than Superman to me but it a dam funny line for sure.

 

[intrinsical]

Is it just me or did Felicity mumble "DonaldandJaledatTanagra"?

 

[Finn]

One thing I kept wondering tonight. What if the Dominators recognized Kara as an Kryptonian? What is even the state of Krypton on Earth One?

 

[Commander Richard]

I would of liked to see a bigger final battle but this is a TV budget of course so hopefully the next crossover will be even bigger.

I read that they might be aiming for a real 4-part crossover for next year.

One thing I kept wondering tonight. What if the Dominators recognized Kara as an Kryptonian? What is even the state of Krypton on Earth One?

I've always thought that Krypton exploded just the same and Clark was on Earth in hiding. Or maybe not. Looks like Earth-38 doesn't have Earth-1 counterparts.

 

[Finn]

My first thought is that the pod(s) may have been delayed...like Kara's was...just longer. Or Clark's pod did make it, but Clark hasn't become superman yet (or too young still).

 

[Photoman15]

In my head, the Dominators left because they saw the metas fighting for their planet and reassessed their concern about them. These metas are no threat to the Atraxi Dominators.

 

[Christopher]

What you're suggesting would have worked better if we hadn't seen Hoechlin.

It's not my suggestion; I'm describing a suggestion made in the past by others, before Hoechlin was cast as Superman. Obviously that suggestion doesn't work anymore. But my point was that it's amusing that they found a way to make it work by doing it in the other direction.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

This was pretty entertaining although the dominator a retreat was kind of anticlimactic. Hard to believe that pain was enough to drive them out. And even if it was there's nothing to stop another attempt on Earth in the future

Also the whole point of traveling into the past was to bring an alien back to 2016 to study yet they let him go. Doesn't make much sense. And why not ask Gideon for weaknesses of the dominators in her database

This just cements the fact that Oliver is a miserable character in every sense of the word.

I don't see why it's hard to believe. Their superweapon was transmuted into nothing at more or less the exact same moment their entire army experienced sudden, totally inexplicable agony. The only thing unbelievable about the retreat was that it could be so well coordinated.

Of course, it's absolutely true that this does nothing to prevent the Dominators from trying again in the future, but that's a problem for another day (just like that Thanagarian invasion that's also still hanging over everyone's head).

Also, the point of traveling to the past was to interrogate a dominator and find out what it wanted. No one mentioned studying the creature, quite possibly because they had already gotten the relevant physical information from Gideon/Supergirl. They achieved their objective before they even escaped, and then they attempted to broker a peaceful solution by proving to the Dominators that they weren't the bad guys. Which backfired, but that is also par for the course on these shows.

 

[Christopher]

Of course, it's absolutely true that this does nothing to prevent the Dominators from trying again in the future, but that's a problem for another day (just like that Thanagarian invasion that's also still hanging over everyone's head).

Another day indeed -- that invasion isn't due until 2175. And it was in a possible future that's now been erased, so there's no guarantee it'll happen at all.

Also, the point of traveling to the past was to interrogate a dominator and find out what it wanted. No one mentioned studying the creature, quite possibly because they had already gotten the relevant physical information from Gideon/Supergirl. They achieved their objective before they even escaped, and then they attempted to broker a peaceful solution by proving to the Dominators that they weren't the bad guys. Which backfired, but that is also par for the course on these shows.

I was really proud of Cisco for feeling mercy for the Dominator and trying to make peace. That's real heroism in my book.

 

[DigificWriter]

I held off reviewing "Invasion" (3) until I could offer up a cogent analysis that wasn't just full of "nerdgasms", but with the full story of the crossover now told and some time to think about the way it wrapped up, I feel sufficiently ready to honestly review the conclusion:

I didn't realize it until last night, but Legends of Tomorrow is my second-favorite of the four Arrowverse shows behind Supergirl, and the main reason for that is its ensemble nature and the way that its tone and narrative style are defined by said nature. I also love the cast.

The reason I mention Legends' ensemble nature and tone here is that it very much defined the way that this third and concluding part of the "Invasion" trilogy played itself out, both in terms of resolving the Dominator storyline and in resolving some more intimate personal character storylines.

Some people online have criticized Oliver ostracizing Supergirl, but I personally thought it was fine because it was so totally an "Oliver" thing to do and paved the way for the potential future development of a cross-dimensional friendship between the two characters that I don't think you could've set up without him having the post-traumatic reaction to her that he did.

I've really enjoyed Angry!Cisco the past few episodes and was expecting his tension-filled interactions with Barry to continue, but I also didn't mind seeing that particular storyline resolved given the nature of the source of said tension and the way that it so perfectly dovetails with what the Legends do. Having him be so casually enthusiastic and blase about time travel and the concept of messing with history, only to be directly responsible for making things so much worse than they would've been otherwise, was a great way to have him realize the inherent folly in the way he'd been treating Barry, and should hopefully lead to their friendship being stronger going forward regardless of what else might happen related to the Flashpoint timeline and the consequences of it.

I don't know about anybody else, but I love Nate's Citizen Steel costume, and think he looks bad**** in it (sorry, Mick).

I've loved Martin Stein from the moment he first debuted on The Flash, and so watching him deal with his own personal "Flashpoint" (#Steinpoint) was really fun and made for a great subplot, especially since he ended up deciding not to follow through on the mission that the Legends are on and leave the timeline as it is, which is a decision that is probably going to end up coming back to haunt the team, but that I honestly can't fault him for.

I've seen some people complain about Thea just being dropped from the story, but, honestly, there just wasn't room in the narrative for her, and she was there largely to service the 100th Episode elements of the crossover's third installment anyway.

This was pointed out to me during a LIVE chat I was participating in, but Felicity commenting on how interacting with Kara when she was in civilian mode" was like looking in a mirror prompting Ray to comment that Kara looks like his cousin was made even more ironically hilarious and awesome by the fact that he and Felicity used to date.

Mick and Sara both being physically turned on by both Kara and the new Earth-1 President was hilarious, and a nice way to bring back some of the two characters' Season 1 dynamic.

Speaking of the President, we almost got Lynda Carter in that role as the Earth-1 version of Olivia Marsdin, but the studio convinced the writers to back away from that idea, which I think was a mistake.

This review has gone on way too long, so I'll close with the following comments:
1) I'm so glad Cisco gave Kara a means of independently breaking the Multiversal barrier because it sets up all kinds of storytelling possibilities both for the larger Arrowverse as well as for the Supergirl series itself individually
2) I got a massive kick out of Kara being all smug and snarky towards Agent Smith and getting him banished to Antarctica, and the fact that it also means that we might see Earth-1 get a version of the DEO at some point in the future was the 'cherry on top'
3) As much as I enjoyed this episode and the way it wrapped up the "Invasion" crossover storyline, I've got to rank it slightly below the Arrow portion of the crossover, largely because I love how that episode was so deftly able to balance being a celebration of Arrow hitting 100 episodes and furthering the "Invasion" storyline

On the whole, "Invasion" more than lived up to the hype for me and is more than likely going to be something that I sit down and watch in the future independently of the rest of the four series that encompass it, so kudos to the writers and producers for that.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I understand why they would want "The Atom" for the crossover but I feel a bit cheated that we didn't get to see how it happened on LoT (unless I missed something?). We've seen Ray trying to find himself without it, it seems like something that would have made nice story fodder.

Speaking of the President, we almost got Lynda Carter in that role as the Earth-1 version of Olivia Marsdin, but the studio convinced the writers you back away from that idea, which I think was a mistake.

I agree with that, it would've been fun and I don't think would have shackled future stories.