Spoilers The Flash - Season 3
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I agree the actress has done a good job with what she's been given, but I'm officially to the point of getting annoyed by this stupidity about her powers 'taking control'. She isn't some weird special case. She was affected by the same particle accelerator explosion as everyone else and she didn't have some pre-existing multiple personality disorder to take over her body. Why should her powers be doing anything even remotely like this? She should be Caitlyn Snow, with powers.
Honestly, the only reason any of the characters had to get even a little concerned to begin with was the knowledge of what she became on Earth 2 - but Reverb was just as evil as Killer Frost, and somehow no one ever believed Cisco would turn evil just by using his powers. And now to show her literally turning into a different person... Why? Even worse, why is no one questioning it? These people have dealt with dozens of metas, and so far almost all of them were exactly the same after transforming as before, just stronger. Those that weren't have had logical explanations for why. Yet everyone is constantly trying to get rid of her powers without ever even thinking to ask what is the actual problem. How can anyone who works with the Flash honestly believe that regular meta powers have the ability to actually make you turn evil?
As for the rest of the episode, Julian being Alchemy pretty much ruins all the characterization he's had over the last few episodes, which is a shame cause he was almost interesting. Bringing up Flashpoint again and again just makes me remember how stupid the whole thing was set up to begin with - and Iris' defense of Barry was incredibly lame. 'Well, how do you know he wouldn't have died anyway?' Seriously? And if HR says 'I agree with x' one more time, I hope someone punches him in the face. Yet another storyline dragging the show down that never even made sense in the first place. Honestly, I really like the actor, but I'd rather he'd left entirely instead of doing this.
That came out harsher than I expected. There was good stuff in the episode. It's not a new low point or anything. But it is extremely frustrating watching a show with such great potential and such a great cast constantly repeating the same stupid mistakes over and over again.
Honestly, the only reason any of the characters had to get even a little concerned to begin with was the knowledge of what she became on Earth 2 - but Reverb was just as evil as Killer Frost, and somehow no one ever believed Cisco would turn evil just by using his powers. And now to show her literally turning into a different person... Why? Even worse, why is no one questioning it? These people have dealt with dozens of metas, and so far almost all of them were exactly the same after transforming as before, just stronger. Those that weren't have had logical explanations for why. Yet everyone is constantly trying to get rid of her powers without ever even thinking to ask what is the actual problem. How can anyone who works with the Flash honestly believe that regular meta powers have the ability to actually make you turn evil?
As for the rest of the episode, Julian being Alchemy pretty much ruins all the characterization he's had over the last few episodes, which is a shame cause he was almost interesting. Bringing up Flashpoint again and again just makes me remember how stupid the whole thing was set up to begin with - and Iris' defense of Barry was incredibly lame. 'Well, how do you know he wouldn't have died anyway?' Seriously? And if HR says 'I agree with x' one more time, I hope someone punches him in the face. Yet another storyline dragging the show down that never even made sense in the first place. Honestly, I really like the actor, but I'd rather he'd left entirely instead of doing this.
That came out harsher than I expected. There was good stuff in the episode. It's not a new low point or anything. But it is extremely frustrating watching a show with such great potential and such a great cast constantly repeating the same stupid mistakes over and over again.
Does it?
He didn't seem to be a particularly willing accomplice, so it seems there's more there than meets the eye.
Why, writers, why? Why do you keep making the same mistakes over and over? Is it an "Earth-1" thing?
I was hoping that The Flash's writers would avoid the problem that Arrow's writers have been suffering lately of shooting themselves in the foot in the closing moments of an episode, but, sadly, those hopes have been dashed.
Between the "Quentin is Prometheus" fakeout, "Artemis is evil" reveal, and now this "Julian is Alchemy" thing, it's as if there's an "epidemic of stupid" going on, and my biggest fear now is that it'll spread to Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow.
It also doesn't help that I'm being forced to put up with H.R. Wells, who is by far the most annoying and useless character to show up on television in decades, on top of The Flash's writers letting Arrow's stupidity rub off on them.
I was already looking forward to the big crossover before, but with the way tonight's episode ended, I need a break.from the madness, which makes me even more excited for the "3 nights of Invasion" we're getting next week.
I was hoping that The Flash's writers would avoid the problem that Arrow's writers have been suffering lately of shooting themselves in the foot in the closing moments of an episode, but, sadly, those hopes have been dashed.
Between the "Quentin is Prometheus" fakeout, "Artemis is evil" reveal, and now this "Julian is Alchemy" thing, it's as if there's an "epidemic of stupid" going on, and my biggest fear now is that it'll spread to Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow.
It also doesn't help that I'm being forced to put up with H.R. Wells, who is by far the most annoying and useless character to show up on television in decades, on top of The Flash's writers letting Arrow's stupidity rub off on them.
I was already looking forward to the big crossover before, but with the way tonight's episode ended, I need a break.from the madness, which makes me even more excited for the "3 nights of Invasion" we're getting next week.
I know it looks that way. But I don't think it is that her powers are taking over her personality but rather they are bringing a pre-existing side of her personality to the surface. Caitlin has always had that hint of coldness inside her, even back in season 1, when she dealt with multiple personal tragedies. And in the recent episode with her mother, we got some backstory that showed where that coldness comes from. So I think that she has always had a coldness, even darkness, inside her. Her powers simply bring it out. Her powers allow her to lash out inside of bottling up her emotions. But we also saw in this episode when Barry tells her to kill him and she can't, that she is not an evil person. So her powers are not turning her into something she is not. She is still Caitlyn Snow with powers, it's just that we are seeing a darker side to her personality that had been suppressed until now.
I actually like the notion they've introduced of "Killer Frost" essentially being a split personality precisely because it's not something we've seen with other Particle Accelerator Metas.
Uh...was there a new episode last night???! Media Center didn't record it and it's guide listed a repeat...
Yes, there was a new episode last night, centered around Caitlyn becoming Killer Frost. You can catch it on the CW website.
Lol, Legends has plenty of "stupid", what with it's time travel "rules".
I thought they handled the Quentin thing pretty well, I'm curious where they'll go with Artemis, and I'm not getting the Alchemy hate either... there's obviously more going on there than "It was me, I was evil all along! Muahahahah"
Yeah, the way Savatar was speaking to Julian and telling him to be Alchemy, it reminded me of the voice that people who used to be metas would hear when they are being called to go to Alchemy. So I think that Savatar has some control over Julian. Maybe Julian got lured in by the desire to make a difference and is now trapped into serving Savatar? After all, it is not like Julian could say no to Savatar.
Except we have seen some evidence of split-personalities or personality takeovers regarding Flashpoint, with Magenta, who was having dreams based on her alternate self from Flashpoint.
Just as Barry's memories were disappearing due to using his powers in the season opener (powers he should no longer have possessed in the Flashpoint timeline), perhaps using powers that have been rippled into place as a result of his "fix" is actually replacing Caitlin's personality (and memories?) with those of the Killer Frost from Flashpoint? Both involved the effect getting worse the more the subject used their (paradoxical) abilities.
Killer Frost was from Earth-2. Flashpoint Caitlin was just an ophthalmologist and seemed perfectly normal.
The thing is, Earth-2 Caitlin became Killer Frost because she had such a crappy and tragic life -- a dead brother, a cold and distant mother perhaps to the point of abuse -- and it turned her dark and bitter. Earth-1 Caitlin doesn't have a brother (that she knows of), but she lost her father, her relationship with her mom wasn't great, and she lost Ronnie Raymond twice, first after the accelerator event and then just after marrying him. So she's got the same kind of suppressed angst and bitterness that led to her counterpart turning dark. So there's no need to evoke any timeliney-wimeliney weirdness; she just had the makings of a psychotic break in her all along.
Caitlin got her powers from the Particle Accelerator explosion; it just took until the present for said powers to manifest themselves.
Right. As it did with Cisco, only even slower. Some people have latent metahuman powers for years, like Jax, whose Firestorm powers didn't activate until he merged with Stein.
Although it's unclear whether Caitlin would've ever manifested these powers if Barry hadn't changed history. It seems that she manifested them sooner post-Flashpoint than she had pre-Flashpoint, but you can't prove a negative, so there's no way to know that she wouldn't have manifested powers eventually even without Flashpoint.
Flashpoint Caitlin may have seemed normal, but remember Savitar's acolytes claim to have seen her as Killer Frost - if these are people with memories of Flashpoint (which is the key theme linking this season so far) then Flashpoint Caitlin may have just had a cover persona. The alternative, which admittedly I will accept is equally likely at this point, is that Savitar showed his acolytes Earth-2 or a potential future for Earth-1.
I don't know if anybody else caught this, but Caitlin said that her powers manifested themselves "3 months ago" last episode when Cisco basically forced her to out herself to the rest of the team, which is exactly the same amount of time that the Flashpoint timeline existed for... which says to me that, if Barry hadn't run back in time and created Flashpoint, this season would've opened with us seeing the ending scene of "Paradox" play out in the premiere as opposed to the second episode.
Regarding Alchemy/Savitar's acolytes having seen Caitlin as Killer Frost, the impression I got is that Savitar showed them a "vision of the future" in which she was a prominent player for "the dark side".
Regarding Alchemy/Savitar's acolytes having seen Caitlin as Killer Frost, the impression I got is that Savitar showed them a "vision of the future" in which she was a prominent player for "the dark side".
She didn't have a psychotic break, though. She just started hurting people to try to help herself and sort of slid into being half-evil for the sake of it. If she had actually been shown to buckle under the pressure, it would've been a lot more believable, but then Barry couldn't fix it with a grand gesture.
Savitar showed them the future, not Flashpoint.
I seem to remember them explicitly testing Caitlin for meta-human-ness after they found out about Killer Frost and the tests came back negative. If that is true then she never would have gotten powers without Flashpoint.
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