Starfleet as the Military...
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Oh, it is. To restate what I said, In official terms defence is secondary to their diplomatic and exploratory functions. In practical terms defence may come to the fore but only in the exceptional circumstances that warrant that.
For the Federation, Starfleet is warriors, janitors, uber, UPS, negotiators, and ditch diggers.
The military aspect of Starfleet will alway be it's first duty, but all the other things that Starfleet does likely takes more of the it time.
The Enterprise was a warship with science labs, not a science ship with weapons.
The military aspect of Starfleet will alway be it's first duty, but all the other things that Starfleet does likely takes more of the it time.
The Enterprise was a warship with science labs, not a science ship with weapons.
What does "some" mean? The D had quite a few phaser arrays, photon torpedoes and mines. And probably enough hand held weapons to arm most if the crew.
The Galaxy Class for the first few seasons of TNG anyway was (probably) the most powerfully armed ship ever devised by the Federation by that time. But still, the ship's primary function was exploration and diplomacy. Its defence capacity, for all its might, was the proverbial fire extinguisher on the wall.
"Some?" The Galaxy class has 10 phaser arrays, though one is only operable during a saucer separation. Plus two photon torpedo launchers, and the main deflector can be modified into a weapon.
For her size she has few arrays, and most are to cover blind spots on the Star Drive section. And only two torpedo tubes. One forward and one aft. A starship many times smaller in volume has as many or more armaments. And unlike weaponry changes between the age of sail, the steam age, dreadnaughts, and nuclear age, phasers and photon torpedoes are still basically the same from the 23rd to 24th centuries.
While a Galaxy-class ship can fight, that not why they built her. Primary functions, deep space exploration and long term missions, based on her ability to carry familes of the crew on board with all luxuries possible from home. She was designed to not be around Federation space for years at a time based on what she has onboard. No patrolling the borders or leading the fleet into battle.
While a Galaxy-class ship can fight, that not why they built her. Primary functions, deep space exploration and long term missions, based on her ability to carry familes of the crew on board with all luxuries possible from home. She was designed to not be around Federation space for years at a time based on what she has onboard. No patrolling the borders or leading the fleet into battle.
Twice in the first season alone the Enterprise D was ordered to the neutral zone, "exploration and diplomacy" get tossed in the nearest broom closet when it's time for the Enterprise to be a warship.
Exploration and diplomacy are secondary duties.They are no more primary duties than running cargo and being a passager carrier are.
Tubes that can fire multiple torpedoes simultaneously. Something I don't think we've seen any other Starfleet vessel do.
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And yet, in practice, patrolling the borders and even leading into battle (though usually without the rest of the Fleet, due to CGI/practical effects/modelling budget I suppose) is what the Ent-D usually did. The description by Tenacity above fits the Ent-d well, as she was indeed taxi, UPS, warrior, ditch digger, etc, as needed.
Leading into battle specifically came to the fore in a few engagements with Romulans (there was one episode where the Ent-D was called away from a medical emergency to go face 9 invading Romulan ships; in another episode she stopped a Romulan invasion of Vulcan, and in yet another lead a fleet against a clandestine arming of a Klingon faction by the Romulans) and against the Borg (with the Ent-D the first ship, as well as the last, to engage the invading cube).
Patrolling the borders - notice how often the Ent-D was near (sometimes in) the neutral zone? How often it was near Cardassian space? Or how often it was simply transferring someone or something between two federation planets, posts, ships or Starbases? Those are not deep-space assignments, not for a 24th century ship with very fast propulsion (relative to its 23th century predecessors who could also reach those destinations easily). It would also be weird for a supposed "flagship" to carry said flag into very deep space, while the Ent-D did show up at many Federation members or prospective members - showing the flag.
The Galaxy class was designed to operate alone in space for years, but in practice they didn't in TNG. It was always close to, if not actually inside, Federation space, allowing the Ent-D to return to Earth or to the neutral zone or to Vulcan (or other "core" locations of the Federation) quickly whenever the plot called for it. A show that was really about a spaceship out for years, exploring beyond the known borders, would have been very different, as returning to Earth, and the neutral zone, and all the rest, would have taken years, also!
Galaxy class ships also took martial duties in DS9, starting with the Oddyssey being the first to confront the Dominion (much like the Ent-D was sent to be the first to deal with aggressive Romulans or Borg) and continuing with their involvement in the large battles later on. One would assume they carried suitable armament to take that role.
All the shows have depicted Starfleet as the organisation - usually the only organisation - that defends the Federation and Earth. They go toe-to-toe with militaries from the dominion, Cardassians, Romulans and Klingons to do so. In this light, I am having trouble to understand the insistence that Starfleet is not a military organisation. Sure, it is more than that, but it seems to be one of its core missions.
Exactly!
Supposedly each of the tubes could fire up to 10 torpedoes at once, an impressive feat if other ships only fire single shot (I'm not sure if other vessels have fired more than one per tube at a time - Voyager possibly? Defiant fired single rounds IIRC).
Granted, on such a large ship they could have put more than merely two of those. Would have made the firepower all the more impressive. But I suppose the relatively complacent pre-Borg, pre-dominion war starfleet thought it to be more than enough already.
I think the reason people (fans) don't want Starfleet to be military or military/explorers is because they're afraid it'll turn them (Starfleet) into Conquistadores.
And I totally agree, that would be a valid concern and a path I really hope the show never takes, but I do think there are ways to have Starfleet be both at once, which traditionally is what they have always done from Day One, on-screen dialog to the contrary, which is little more than propaganda to appease the peace-at-all-costs crowd.
And I totally agree, that would be a valid concern and a path I really hope the show never takes, but I do think there are ways to have Starfleet be both at once, which traditionally is what they have always done from Day One, on-screen dialog to the contrary, which is little more than propaganda to appease the peace-at-all-costs crowd.
Seems unlikely. I mean they'd have to be written that way and I don't see that happening ( outside of a bad apple our heroes will take down by episode's end)
I went and checked on this, the Enterprise D actually has three, the third can only be use if the saucer is separated, and it faces aft.
Which is the same story for most modern and historical militaries. The militay is a ready source of people to take care of a wide range of tasks, when a natural disaster occurs, the military is often called in.
Or that Starfleet will be a organization that establishs a treaty port.
Diplomacy was practiced in the Neutral Zone episode. They didn't attack the Romulans. The Enterprise defence role was held in reserve. It played a secondary role.
Starfleet is military. It has to be.
Exploration includes first contact. First contact might mean armed conflict. You can't send a bunch of Sheldons out on a ship without the capability to defend and attack.
I'm sure that we don't want a fleet of USS Grissom Captain Milquetoasts out there waiting days or weeks for a Starfleet decision on a firing order.
Starfleet is military.
Exploration includes first contact. First contact might mean armed conflict. You can't send a bunch of Sheldons out on a ship without the capability to defend and attack.
I'm sure that we don't want a fleet of USS Grissom Captain Milquetoasts out there waiting days or weeks for a Starfleet decision on a firing order.
Starfleet is military.
Don't forget the battle bridge!
I thought it was used against the BoP before separation in "Generations."
I like seeing the various roles that a military can take on expressed in Starfleet. The "Starfleet isn't a military" arguments makes no sense in light of that fact that the Federation has no other force designed to serve in a military capacity.
Exactly. Who fought back when the Dominion War broke out? STARFLEET, that's what. And if that's not military, what is?
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