Starfleet as the Military...

[BillJ]

I think one of the advantages of doing Discovery as a reboot, would be the fact that they could finally make Starfleet a purely exploration outfit. As opposed to having officers running around saying they aren't the military when Starfleet clearly has been throughout the franchise.

 

[Ithekro]

Isn't Nicholas Meyers one of the people involved with this show? Wouldn't that push it more towards at least looking and behaving like a military?

 

[The Wormhole]

Funny, I'm of the opinion they should do the opposite, finally admit once and for all that Starfleet is a military, with maybe some kind of lip service about propaganda claiming they aren't.

But as a compromise, I'll agree that if they want us to believe Starfleet to be purely peaceful explorers they should drop the militaristic side that's been prominent in all the Treks. If they're going to keep that in, than they really should just admit Starfleet is a military. As it is, it's only those who believe in strict 100% adherence to on screen canon with no wiggle room, or the truly devout to "Gene's vision" who don't see Starfleet as military anyway. Hell, Roddenberry was fine with Starfleet being a military until it came time for him to discredit Nick Meyer and Harve Bennett, and then later began hating the military for some reason.

 

[Mage]

When it comes to Starfleet being either a exploration service or a military, I am reminded of that great little animated movie, The Road To El Dorado.



Both??

Both is good.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm a fan of both myself. It's not like militaries, especially contemporary ones, are purely combat oriented outfits. They have other tasks, like the Corps of Engineers, medical research and humanitarian aid.

Starfleet is a "combined service" so there's no reason why it can't have multiple facets.

 

[Mage]

What Fireproof78 said. All this nonsense about it being either when it could easily be both.

 

[Paradise City]

It's obvious that it's both. That doesn't really need to be stated. But a legitimate debate surrounds which dimension is going to be emphasised more. Even if this emphasis is only subtle.

It just depends how the Federation is depicted and how they are going to angle the show. The term "Discovery" suggests they are going to pivot more towards exploration.But who knows?

 

[The Wormhole]

Of course it can be both, certainly no one had a problem with a decade-plus of the Stargate franchise featuring USAF officers walking around decked out in combat gear and armed with actual assault rifles and submachine guns being peaceful explorers. The problem is we're inundated with way too many people saying Starfleet definitely is not military to the point that it has even become a pivotal plot point in the two most recent movies despite the fact they are organized as a military and behave exactly like one. I really hope anything along the lines of "Starfleet isn't a military" is not spoken at all in Discovery, unless in a very ironic manner.

 

[fireproof78]

Of course it can be both, certainly no one had a problem with a decade-plus of the Stargate franchise featuring USAF officers walking around decked out in combat gear and armed with actual assault rifles and submachine guns being peaceful explorers. The problem is we're inundated with way too many people saying Starfleet definitely is not military to the point that it has even become a pivotal plot point in the two most recent movies despite the fact they are organized as a military and behave exactly like one. I really hope anything along the lines of "Starfleet isn't a military" is not spoken at all in Discovery, unless in a very ironic manner.

Oh, I did. I totally did. In fact, when one of the top Air Force commanders did a cameo I was like "Who this jerk? Is he a bad guy?"

Personally, I would like to see an SG-1 type expedition team in Starfleet, as more of a dedicated away team rather than Captain, First Officer, department head, red shirt formula that has been going on for too long.

 

[ihno]

I never had a problem with Starfleet being part military and part exploration. It's a different system in the future so why not? Why can't it be both?

I expect the new show to be more like Star Trek II and less like TNG but I would prefer it if they would not change the language or suddenly emphasize they're military now.

The show should still fit to the rest and produce more contradictions on purpose.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I hope the Discovery has a platoon of Starfleet Marines on board.

 

[Paradise City]

They should do what they do and have done. Starfleet formally for exploration and peace, a spearhead force espousing Federation values whilst carrying a potent defence capacity calibrated to whatever strategic temperature prevails in the galaxy at that given point in time. Of course with any show you'll still have your "science vessel" and other types of ships within the various areas and maybe the show will simply zero in on one of those.

Some are frustrated as to Starfleet being a military or not a military and questions of this sort. For me, one of the cool things about Trek is how Starfleet is positioned and how it is structured to advance Federation values. Generally speaking I wouldn't change how Starfleet is presented.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

It's neither. It is an exploratory expedition force built on a military template.

 

[Philip Guyott]

It seems to me that if Starfleet can court martial its personnel then it is a military service! Either that or it is a quasi-military civilian service (e.g. the Coastguard or The Salvation Army) only with a lot of firepower at its disposal.

I know that it is not canon, but I love the way the fan production Pacific 201 is dealing with this issue. It takes place in the year 2200 (four decades after the Earth/Romulan war). Since the war Starfleet had became principally a military organization entrusted with the task of defence. However after many years of peace they are sending a ship out on a mission of exploration. The crew will consist of both military personnel (Starfleet) and civilian science personnel ('United Earth Space Probe Agency' or 'UESPA' for short).

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The thread for this fan production can be found here: Link

Given time the 'UESPA' personnel will be once again absorbed into Starfleet. Hence the service will become an amalgamation of both a military and a scientific service in a similar way to how MACO's were absorbed into Starfleet at the founding of the Federation. Some people depending on their own philosophy will emphasise its militaristic elements, whist others will emphasise its humanitarian and scientific agenda.

So is Starfleet a military or scientific service? I suppose that depends of what they are needed for at any given time.

It's neither. It is an exploratory expedition force built on a military template.

 

[Tenacity]

I'll agree that if they want us to believe Starfleet to be purely peaceful explorers they should drop the militaristic side that's been prominent in all the Treks

They could start by stripping the ship of any device that could even remotely be used as a weapon.

That would prove the point.

 

[Lost Timelord]

Starfleet appears to be both. The Federation relies on Starfleet to aid and fight their battles. In my humble opinion, that last part alone puts Starfleet as military. I have no problem with it being both.

 

[Paradise City]

Starfleet is formally a service for peace and exploration. Defence has a secondary function in official terms. This is reflected on how the Federation views itself; a diverse union espousing peace and learning in which Starfleet spearheads these values and were war is the option of last resort. This is in novel contrast to the more traditional big power empires who have fleets explicitly for defence and conquest where science and freight are secondary functions.

In practical terms, how exactly pronounced the defence function is on Starfleet vessels on average just really depends on how much the Federation is being tested by its rivals in specific points in Federation history.

That's my reading of these things anyway. I think it's an elegant way of presenting Starfleet myself.

 

[The Wormhole]

Personally, I would like to see an SG-1 type expedition team in Starfleet, as more of a dedicated away team rather than Captain, First Officer, department head, red shirt formula that has been going on for too long.

I agree, I've always felt something like a Galaxy class ship should have something like 10 specialized Away Teams that are similar to SG Teams that get deployed to check out planet, with specialists from the ship's crew helping out as needed.

Starfleet is formally a service for peace and exploration. Defence has a secondary function in official terms.

Defense is not a "secondary function." I guarantee, whenever the Borg or the Dominion come knocking on the door, any and all scientific and exploratory pursuits are going to be abandoned and ships, facilities and personnel dedicated to those pursuits are going to be reallocated to defense. That's just how shit works.

Starfleet spearheads these values and were war is the option of last resort.

Even today, in most cases war is considered a last resort for nations and their militaries, though admittedly that can at times be hard to believe. Besides, throughout Star Trek war has always been present, even under Roddenberry. In TOS there was a war with the Romulans a century earlier and war was declared between the Federation and the Klingons in Errand of Mercy before the Organians stepped in. After that they were locked in a cold war from that point on. Then in TNG we know there were incidents involving the Romulans and Tholians in the decades between TOS and TNG, and the Federation was engaged in a war with the Cardassians off camera during the first two seasons of the show.

 

[Mudd]

It's neither. It is an exploratory expedition force built on a military template.

Pretty much, yeah.

Watched Beyond this evening and noticed that Scotty once again asserted that Starfleet is "not a military agency." Who am I to argue with Pegg?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Watched Beyond this evening and noticed that Scotty once again asserted that Starfleet is "not a military agency."

Good for him.

Who am I to argue with Pegg?

Jim Kirk once described himself as a soldier. Who am I to argue with Kirk?