Robbed of Seasons 5-7

[Ghel]

That's so funny. I was here for the "early" stuff and Phil Farrand's Nitcentral board as well At the time, there was a LOT of anger towards Berman and Braga. Most of it boiled down to, "I've seen this before" and wanting to give Star Trek a "rest." There was legitimate criticism, but also a fair amount of fatigue with multiple series and films running unceasingly since the mid-80s. The Riker Episode also made a lot of people nuts. My favorite interaction (and I do wish I saved this admittedly non-Enterprise moment) was during the first run of Voyager when they went back in time to the 1990s. The Voyager crew claims (paraphrasing) that Y2K turned out to be a whole lot of nothing. It aired before 2000 and many posters were losing their minds about how "wrong" this prediction was going to be. Thankfully, the Voyager writers turned out to be on the money with that prediction.

 

[eyeresist]

stayed when I realized it wasn't quite the zoo I remembered it to be.

The important thing is to keep the animals in line. Let them know who's boss.

These past few weeks I've been browsing here are the first time since the show ended in 2005 (!!!) that there isnt an active TATV hate thread going on.

Oh, TATV threads still pop up. I think we're on a break at the moment.

One example of wasted potential is Unexpected, where Trip gets pregnant. ... they turned Trip's pregnancy into a cliche that most sitcoms would be embarrassed by today. Here was an opperutuny to do something--anything--new. Couldve discussed adoption or abortion or even the fact that his impregnation would've never happened if Ah'Len didn't lie by omission

I actually like this episode. I don't think they treated Trip's pregnancy as a sitcom situation. The potential was there, but it was underplayed. The only nod to the "OMG a pregnant male" thing was Trip's obvious discomfort.
For me the pregnancy isn't really important. This fits the category of "first contact gone wrong", which ENT was the only series to really deal with. Trip's wonder at the alienness of the ship he visits is brought down to earth when he discovers he is host to an alien parasite. This depiction of the unexpected consequences of first contact is a cool sci-fi idea.
I agree that the aliens behaved in a disreputable way (disreputable to us, anyway). I think it's interesting that, judging from their behaviour, they seem to be parasitic by nature. It's also interesting that this isn't hammered home in the dialog, but left for us to work out for ourselves.

 

[Willow]

The important thing is to keep the animals in line. Let them know who's boss.

Oh, TATV threads still pop up. I think we're on a break at the moment.


I actually like this episode. I don't think they treated Trip's pregnancy as a sitcom situation. The potential was there, but it was underplayed. The only nod to the "OMG a pregnant male" thing was Trip's obvious discomfort.
For me the pregnancy isn't really important. This fits the category of "first contact gone wrong", which ENT was the only series to really deal with. Trip's wonder at the alienness of the ship he visits is brought down to earth when he discovers he is host to an alien parasite. This depiction of the unexpected consequences of first contact is a cool sci-fi idea.
I agree that the aliens behaved in a disreputable way (disreputable to us, anyway). I think it's interesting that, judging from their behaviour, they seem to be parasitic by nature. It's also interesting that this isn't hammered home in the dialog, but left for us to work out for ourselves.

"Parasitic"..interesting word! I never thought about it that way before, but you're right. Their actions in general were quite "parasitic". However they didn't appear to be malevolent. Just a different culture/way of life that humans weren't accustomed to.

 

[Anna Yolei]

To go more into depth on that episode would require another thread entirely. But a friend of mine who is doing a comprehensive review of Enterprise had this to say:

The sad thing about this episode is that it could have been fucking amazing. It could have dealt with serious shit. Trip gets pregnant - what if he wants to abort the baby? He didn't want it, and who knows what it will do to him - it might burst forth from him Alien-style. What if they returned to the aliens, and she didn't want it? What if Trip wanted to keep the baby - difficult to share weekends when sprinting across the galaxy at Warp 5. Hell, what if her society gave the mother abortion rights, and she wanted to abort, and Trip didn't - diplomatic crisis indeed. Instead, it's all vaguely sexist jokes about pregnancy, tons of exposition to build up the episode (in TOS, they'd have just had Kirk go over there, finger-fuck the jello, and get out in like five minutes), and goddamn fucking holodeck misadventure.

...which is my opinion in a nutshell.

 

[eyeresist]

So you're annoyed the story wasn't about abortion?

 

[Anna Yolei]

So you're annoyed the story wasn't about abortion?

I'm annoyed they didn't go much deeper than "LOL, Trip is preggers." I'm also annoyed they completely ignored the alien's lying by omission because she didn't think he'd get pregnant which was something TIIC would've taken heat for if the genders were reversed.

Like I've said, lots of missed opportunity. Much like the show as a whole. And that's why I don't much lament it's short run because the folks running DSC won't take a seven season run for granted. For too long gone this franchise had been running game on autopilot.

 

[saladdays]

I'm annoyed they didn't go much deeper than "LOL, Trip is preggers." I'm also annoyed they completely ignored the alien's lying by omission because she didn't think he'd get pregnant which was something TIIC would've taken heat for if the genders were reversed.

Like I've said, lots of missed opportunity. Much like the show as a whole. And that's why I don't much lament it's short run because the folks running DSC won't take a seven season run for granted. For too long gone this franchise had been running game on autopilot.

It's not an incredibly deep episode, but I don't think they really missed a huge opportunity or anything. The whole episode revolves around a species that (as someone mentioned above) kind of parasitic in nature. Not purposefully so, but still so nonetheless. The pregnancy, IMO, highlights their mentality on a more personal level, while their ship causing problems with Enterprise and other ships is on a greater scale.

 

[Rad]

I thought Enterprise started off okay for the first couple of episodes, but then season 1 kinda went off the rails. Where I thought they did a PHENOMENAL job was the Xindi season story arc. Wow! We really got pulled into the main story, the secondary stories, the added characters and the season climax was over the top (continuing into the next season!).

After that, it really felt like the cast came together; became cohesive rather than rote. The sour note was the series finale with Riker being an observer and Enterprise was nothing more than a holodeck program.

We would have loved seeing additional seasons.

 

[Archer Fan]

The TV climate in the early 2000s was the problem. Reality TV was king. People like Paris Hilton were getting huge ratings. Sci Fi was as dead as fried chicken. I think a Trek series has a better shot today. I hope...

 

[F. King Daniel]

I loved season three of Enterprise and liked season four. One and two were hit and miss, with far more misses than hits.

I view what happened to Trek kinda like Firefly. I'd have liked to see more seasons of Firefly, but I LOVED Serenity so much I'm happier with that. I liked Enterprise, but I LOVED the last three movies so I'm at peace with what happened.

 

[Long Syntax]

I view what happened to Trek kinda like Firefly. I'd have liked to see more seasons of Firefly, but I LOVED Serenity so much I'm happier with that. I liked Enterprise, but I LOVED the last three movies so I'm at peace with what happened.

I'd want both seasons 5 - 7 on ST:ENT and the Kelvin movies (I'm greedy like that )

 

[TheGoodStuff]

As petty as it sounds, I have never really forgiven them for cancelling Enterprise. I think it was dead at the end of season 2. The first two seasons were uninspired, lazy and full of stupid mistakes. It's like they had an idea for a prequel...but no idea for what to actually do with it.

But then seasons 3 & 4 came along and everything clicked. The crew, Bakula, a 'trek' feel, great plots, story arcs...but it was too late. In those last two seasons ENT actually did some things better than even the wonderful TNG's or DS9's of this world and that's what made the whole mess so sad.

In my opinion, part of what killed it is part of what they thought would save it. Dropping the 'Star Trek' prefix, shoving in boatloads of cringey sexual scenes, most episodes just dissolving into violence [plenty of phase pistols and torpedos, but very light on philosophising and thought-provoking episodes] and a complete lack of idea for what they wanted to do with the characters, the ship and the show in general. i think they simultaneously annoyed the hardcores [that's most of us] and alienated the casuals with such lacklustre ideas.

I still think it should not have been cancelled. I still wish it had been saved/revived. I maintain the show was very poor to begin with but became very good and could have been something special even with an extra 2 seasons to touch on the Romulan War.

ENT's neck was slit just as it had found its legs.

 

[eyeresist]

most episodes just dissolving into violence [plenty of phase pistols and torpedos, but very light on philosophising and thought-provoking episodes]

I'd say that's an inaccurate stereotype.

 

[saladdays]

As petty as it sounds, I have never really forgiven them for cancelling Enterprise.

By "them" who are you talking about? UPN? Paramount?

 

[TheGoodStuff]

I'd say that's an inaccurate stereotype.

Obviously, I disagree. ENT in its first two seasons [in particular] was reliant on violence: I just had a quick skim through the first season and most episodes at least involve phase pistols. The show didn't have the same ammount of 'talky' episodes as the other series.

By "them" who are you talking about? UPN? Paramount?

Whoever cancelled it. It seems Paramount took the decision to bullet it due to changes on the board. I don't really care though, it was an expression of my disappointment at it being killed as it was getting very good.

 

[saladdays]

Whoever cancelled it. It seems Paramount took the decision to bullet it due to changes on the board. I don't really care though, it was an expression of my disappointment at it being killed as it was getting very good.

Fair enough.

 

[T'Arwen]

I'm annoyed they didn't go much deeper than "LOL, Trip is preggers." I'm also annoyed they completely ignored the alien's lying by omission because she didn't think he'd get pregnant which was something TIIC would've taken heat for if the genders were reversed.

Like I've said, lots of missed opportunity. Much like the show as a whole. And that's why I don't much lament it's short run because the folks running DSC won't take a seven season run for granted. For too long gone this franchise had been running game on autopilot.

Have you ever read Misplaced's "Unexpected Too"? It dives deeper into Xyrillian culture and fills in the gaps for the lying by omission. To be fair, I'm not sure that they really could have dealt with serious shit without making the episode a two-parter.

http://triaxiansilk.com/index.php?page=viewstory&id=1171

 

[eyeresist]

Obviously, I disagree. ENT in its first two seasons [in particular] was reliant on violence: I just had a quick skim through the first season and most episodes at least involve phase pistols. The show didn't have the same ammount of 'talky' episodes as the other series.

"at least involve phase pistols" is quite different to "dissolving into violence". ENT was about how dangerous going into space was, and when phase pistols are involved, it's usually as defense against hostiles. When there is space combat, Enterprise's role is usually to run away as fast as possible! Very few eps fit this pew pew pew stereotype you are putting them into. Most eps are based on Trekky ideas, but thankfully the pontification doesn't reach TNG levels.

Looking through seasons 1 and 3, the only eps I can see that might arguably fit your stereotype are:

Shadows of P'Jem (most violence takes place during a hostage rescue, and it's all the Vulcans' fault!)
Cease Fire (Archer & T'Pol are caught in a war zone. The ep ends with them negotiating a cease fire.)
Future Tense (various people shoot at Enterprise because of an artifact they found. They run away to the Vulcans.)
Regeneration (the ship is attacked by Borg)
Fortunate Son & Horizon both involve cargo ships fighting off space pirates.​

Do you want to go through every episode, because this could take a while.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

"at least involve phase pistols" is quite different to "dissolving into violence". ENT was about how dangerous going into space was, and when phase pistols are involved, it's usually as defense against hostiles. When there is space combat, Enterprise's role is usually to run away as fast as possible! Very few eps fit this pew pew pew stereotype you are putting them into. Most eps are based on Trekky ideas, but thankfully the pontification doesn't reach TNG levels.

Looking through seasons 1 and 3, the only eps I can see that might arguably fit your stereotype are:

Shadows of P'Jem (most violence takes place during a hostage rescue, and it's all the Vulcans' fault!)
Cease Fire (Archer & T'Pol are caught in a war zone. The ep ends with them negotiating a cease fire.)
Future Tense (various people shoot at Enterprise because of an artifact they found. They run away to the Vulcans.)
Regeneration (the ship is attacked by Borg)
Fortunate Son & Horizon both involve cargo ships fighting off space pirates.​

Do you want to go through every episode, because this could take a while.

The bolded part just highlights my point and undoes the rest of what you said. As I said, I skimmed through S1 and most episodes involve violence [defence against hostiles, drawing phase pistols, or running from an aggressor etc are all themes of violence]. I didn't say anything like 'pew pew' I said violence. DS9 & TNG [for example] all have far more episodes without any violent theme in them whereas it is a trope in ENT.

 

[saladdays]

The bolded part just highlights my point and undoes the rest of what you said. As I said, I skimmed through S1 and most episodes involve violence [defence against hostiles, drawing phase pistols, or running from an aggressor etc are all themes of violence]. I didn't say anything like 'pew pew' I said violence. DS9 & TNG [for example] all have far more episodes without any violent theme in them whereas it is a trope in ENT.

How else to better show some of the dangers of space than showing them defending themselves against hostiles?