Spoilers Star Trek: Prey Trilogy - general discussion thread

[Jarvisimo]

This felt like a Klingon version of The Fall combined with a replay of The Left Hand of Darkness, without the deliberate role of mythologising in the latter (so far).

Some questions:

Spoiler: questions

• Was this the first confirmation that Spock has returned to Romulus since Raise the Dawn when he was on the Enterprise for the joint Pact/Federation mission to the Gamma Quadrant? whislt nice to know where he is, this felt like it did not follow on from what DRG established for Spock then.
• Also did everyone forget about the brief war in DS9 seasons 4-5, some people were talking as if there had been no conflict between klingons and federation since Khitomer (including Martok in a later council scene).
• I wonder what Korgh's plan would have been under President Ishan Anjar - he probably hoped the hawk still was president
• How are 12 - tiny b'rel - ships a threat? Even with the remaining 20, it feels like a handwaive to say that century-old ships can be a threat with the upgrades in tech over the century. Really would a 1916 genius be able to upgrade ship things from then to a 2016 level of technology? Not only would sensors and cloaks be far advanced and in a constant race of penetration and obscuration leapfrogging one another - as @Christopher has theorised here many times - but the effectiveness of ship materials such as their frames, coating and armour would mean the 12 ships would have to have been substantially modernised. Surely then, they should have built more - or can the 12 if so even be called the 12 anymore?

 

[JJMiller]

Some answers:

Spoiler: questions

• I was told that wherever Spock may have been, he would have returned to Romulus afterward. That is what he considers his permanent assignment.
  
  
• Re: the DS9 conflict -- there are multiple mentions across all three books that the relationship has been tumultuous, but that they have ultimately seen it through -- and especially since the Borg Invasion that past has been treated in most of the lit that I've read as water under the bridge. These moments will happen, to one level or another, in an alliance that spans a long period: the United States generally took Egypt's side over Britain's in the Suez Crisis. If anything, the events of the Dominion War era underscore that the alliance is vulnerable to decision-making in both capitals: which is why Korgh sees a victory in cleaving the two apart diplomatically.
  
  There is much more to come in the next books on this score.
  
  
• While he might have wanted to, Korgh couldn't have pulled the trigger early to take advantage of Anjar's presidency -- he was on a deliberate timetable and focused on the centenary as his go-date.
  
  
• It's described in Book 1 to a degree, but there are several steps here: the Twenty had already advanced the Phantom Wing beyond anything seen in 2285 before they left the hangar, while Odrok is suggested to have gotten some of the House of Chang's research into firing while cloaked -- clearly, enough to perfect her own version. There follows a period I will not describe as it is yet to be seen, but we also know from book 1 that Odrok has had access to modern cloaking equipment and materials Korgh embezzled from the House of Kruge for decades; anything she needed from the Ketorix yards, she got. (Locations and the source of labor is something else we get into later on.)
  
  Layer onto that the tech obtained from the Hunters -- beaming through shields while cloaked -- and that, plus surprise, gave them the edge in the only engagement we saw. The Unsung's enemies would be necessarily concerned about what other cards like that they have up their sleeves. (Defeating shields is pretty, er, disruptive as capabilities go; a single bird-of-prey destroyed Enterprise-D by stacking the deck, and while newer I don't think the D-12s are that much larger than the B'rel's.)
  
  That said, it is yet to be seen how well these refitted ships will really perform across time -- and, indeed, no one as of Book 1 considers the Wing a threat in a fleet engagement. The larger matter isn't the Phantom Wing, but what it carries. A terrorist force able to strike at individuals through any defenses would on its own be seen as a considerable threat -- but it is their potential to disrupt Klingon society simply because of who they are that makes them an existential danger to the Empire. Needless to say, we will see a lot more about that in a few weeks!

 

[Jarvisimo]

Some answers:

Spoiler: questions

• I was told that wherever Spock may have been, he would have returned to Romulus afterward. That is what he considers his permanent assignment.
  
  
• Re: the DS9 conflict -- there are multiple mentions across all three books that the relationship has been tumultuous, but that they have ultimately seen it through -- and especially since the Borg Invasion that past has been treated in most of the lit that I've read as water under the bridge. These moments will happen, to one level or another, in an alliance that spans a long period: the United States generally took Egypt's side over Britain's in the Suez Crisis. If anything, the events of the Dominion War era underscore that the alliance is vulnerable to decision-making in both capitals: which is why Korgh sees a victory in cleaving the two apart diplomatically.
  
  There is much more to come in the next books on this score.
  
  
• While he might have wanted to, Korgh couldn't have pulled the trigger early to take advantage of Anjar's presidency -- he was on a deliberate timetable and focused on the centenary as his go-date.
  
  
• It's described in Book 1 to a degree, but there are several steps here: the Twenty had already advanced the Phantom Wing beyond anything seen in 2285 before they left the hangar, while Odrok is suggested to have gotten some of the House of Chang's research into firing while cloaked -- clearly, enough to perfect her own version. There follows a period I will not describe as it is yet to be seen, but we also know from book 1 that Odrok has had access to modern cloaking equipment and materials Korgh embezzled from the House of Kruge for decades; anything she needed from the Ketorix yards, she got. (Locations and the source of labor is something else we get into later on.)
  
  Layer onto that the tech obtained from the Hunters -- beaming through shields while cloaked -- and that, plus surprise, gave them the edge in the only engagement we saw. The Unsung's enemies would be necessarily concerned about what other cards like that they have up their sleeves. (Defeating shields is pretty, er, disruptive as capabilities go; a single bird-of-prey destroyed Enterprise-D by stacking the deck, and while newer I don't think the D-12s are that much larger than the B'rel's.)
  
  That said, it is yet to be seen how well these refitted ships will really perform across time -- and, indeed, no one as of Book 1 considers the Wing a threat in a fleet engagement. The larger matter isn't the Phantom Wing, but what it carries. A terrorist force able to strike at individuals through any defenses would on its own be seen as a considerable threat -- but it is their potential to disrupt Klingon society simply because of who they are that makes them an existential danger to the Empire. Needless to say, we will see a lot more about that in a few weeks!

Thank you very much for your prompt reply!

Spoiler: your answers

1. It makes a certain sense, perhaps he returned to smooth over the political issues following the Eletrix - it is strange no one has touched on him since 2012, but I presume DRG always wanted to again since he had taken (rather effectively) the Spock baton as part of his broader interest in complicated Romulus.
2. Fair point - it just felt like more anti-Fed voices should have said 'we did so well until the Dominion became involved' - whether true or not. In any case, you are right, it's over a decade/nearly 15 years before, and the Dominion War and Borg invasion, as well as the tension with the Pact, fill that void.
3. I think Anjar would just aid his political coup - not that I was suggested he should have acted sooner (as he needed the family gathering at the centenary in the plot).
4. I'm looking forward, I'm not sold yet (things felt too easy for Korgh et al., and I think at what point do the PW ships stop being the PW ships and something else?) but I really like what you are saying will happen!

Again, thank you!

 

[JJMiller]

My pleasure. Additional thoughts:

Spoiler: your answers

Oh, absolutely the Phantom Wing ships do become something different over time -- which is one reason Korgh sees no danger at all in sharing the original schematics at the moment when it benefits him. The basic structure is B'rel, but as we saw with the 1701 and the 1701-refit, there's room for quite a bit of change in there.

The critical thing to remember with the celebration is that the Unsung had an inside man in Korgh/Galdor, paving the way; he's spent years gaming out a moment that Starfleet has had days to prepare for. That's a big advantage, and we'll see how well that dynamic works out going forward.

 

[DimesDan]

I just popped into the big bookshop here in Dublin (Hodges Figgis) and picked up the only copy of Hell's Heart so I'll probably start reading it when I finish what I am now.

 

[JWolf]

Which Star Trek series would the Prey series fit? Would it be considered a crossover?

 

[DimesDan]

Which Star Trek series would the Prey series fit? Would it be considered a crossover?

One would assume so going by the cover alone.

 

[Jinn]

Which Star Trek series would the Prey series fit? Would it be considered a crossover?

I think Prey was originally shown as a TNG trilogy.

 

[ATimson]

Based on Book One, TNG probably fits best. There's some brief Titan and TOS elements, but not enough where I'd consider it a "full" crossover like Destiny.

 

[JJMiller]

If you're talking about the title, I proposed it be labeled as a general Trek work with its own subtitle (a la The Fall or Legacies) because significant parts happen in multiple eras and aboard Titan, and so the only branding that made sense was its own.

Strictly speaking, of course, most of the content is in the post Next Generation era -- though as people will see when we release The Jackal's Trick (available today at New York Comic-Con, where I'm signing for Pocket and other publishers), there are more different-era sections to come. Titan is also a much larger part of events in book two.

So I guess it would be a general series crossover series in the sense that Takedown was a 24th Century crossover, by merging the TNG and Titan-branded crews; this does that and more by including other crews from the past.

 

[Jinn]

So I guess it would be a general series crossover series in the sense that Takedown was a 24th Century crossover, by merging the TNG and Titan-branded crews; this does that and more by including other crews from the past.

In my head, I count Titan as a TNG sub-series.

 

[JJMiller]

I'm sure there are many ways to classify it. On the pure marketing side, the shorter the title, the easier it is to list in online bookstores, so knowing we had sub-subtitles I was fine with PREY rather than TNG: PREY, which would have added more words yet.

 

[Stevil2001]

I'm sure there are many ways to classify it. On the pure marketing side, the shorter the title, the easier it is to list in online bookstores, so knowing we had sub-subtitles I was fine with PREY rather than TNG: PREY, which would have added more words yet.

I remember the good old days of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: Mission: Gamma, Book Two: This Gray Spirit.

 

[ATimson]

I remember the good old days of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: Mission: Gamma, Book Two: This Gray Spirit.

Along with its good friends, Star Trek: The Next Generation #55: Double Helix, Book Five: Double or Nothing and Star Trek: The Next Generation #56: Double Helix, Book Six: The First Virtue.

 

[JWolf]

In my head, I count Titan as a TNG sub-series.

Actually, that would make Titan and a sub-sub-series of Stargazer as TNG would be a sub-series of Stargazer.

But, using this logic, all Trek after Ent is a sub-series of Ent.

 

[JWolf]

Along with its good friends, Star Trek: The Next Generation #55: Double Helix, Book Five: Double or Nothing and Star Trek: The Next Generation #56: Double Helix, Book Six: The First Virtue.

I'll do you one better. Star Trek: The Next Generation: Slings and Arrows:
Enterprises of Great Pitch and Moment

 

[Christopher]

Actually, that would make Titan and a sub-sub-series of Stargazer as TNG would be a sub-series of Stargazer.

But, using this logic, all Trek after Ent is a sub-series of Ent.

No, because "sub-" means "beneath," not "after." It's about hierarchy rather than chronology -- a sub-series is a subdivision or offshoot of a main series. For instance, the Harper Hall Trilogy is a sub-series of The Dragonriders of Pern, or the Lije Baley novels are a sub-series of Asimov's robot series, or the like.

Although I disagree with Jinn's characterization of Titan. It's not a sub-series, it's a spinoff.

 

[The Wormhole]

I remember the good old days of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: Mission: Gamma, Book Two: This Gray Spirit.

Along with its good friends, Star Trek: The Next Generation #55: Double Helix, Book Five: Double or Nothing and Star Trek: The Next Generation #56: Double Helix, Book Six: The First Virtue.

And to think, there are fans who completely lost their shit when the Abrams movies dropped the colons...

 

[Jinn]

No, because "sub-" means "beneath," not "after." It's about hierarchy rather than chronology -- a sub-series is a subdivision or offshoot of a main series. For instance, the Harper Hall Trilogy is a sub-series of The Dragonriders of Pern, or the Lije Baley novels are a sub-series of Asimov's robot series, or the like.

Although I disagree with Jinn's characterization of Titan. It's not a sub-series, it's a spinoff.

My two main reason were the Titan storyline sort of came out of TNG (if that makes any sense to anyone, not in my head) and the "big three" characters, Riker, Troi and Vale, all being from TNG. Of course there is Tuvok from VGR, Keru and Pazlat from DS9 and probably some characters I forgot. And there were always "pass the torch" moments that link a new series to its predecessor.

 

[Christopher]

My two main reason were the Titan storyline sort of came out of TNG

So did DS9. Bajorans, Cardassians, Ferengi, Trill, wormholes to the Gamma Quadrant, Wolf 359, it all originated in TNG. The basic premise of DS9 was essentially a mix-and-match of TNG concepts. Even shapeshifters were something they'd done on TNG, though not the same species, of course. Plus, naturally, you have the O'Brien family, and eventually Worf and all the Klingon-politics baggage he brought with him.

And isn't that what spinoffs do most of the time? The Bionic Woman came out of The Six Million Dollar Man. The Jeffersons came out of All in the Family. Xena, Warrior Princess came out of Hercules: The Legendary Journeys. Torchwood and The Sarah Jane Adventures (and now Class) came out of Doctor Who. Yes, sometimes a spinoff will be an independent concept that just gets introduced in an existing series in a single episode to help bring attention to it, like "Assignment: Earth," but the majority of the time, it's an offshoot of a character or storyline that arose within the original series and was popular enough to warrant a spinoff.

And there were always "pass the torch" moments that link a new series to its predecessor.

Titan had that, in a sense, since Taking Wing grew out of the Romulan mission mentioned at the end of Nemesis and continued threads from that movie and from Death in Winter, as well as featuring an appearance by Spock.