List of Trek questions that keep us up at night

[Tim Thomason]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean, do Vulcans call their planet's soil "vulcan" too, for instance?

Maybe some of them do. I mean, it's not true of all "earth" cultures to equate the common word for soil with the planet (it's true in Greek and the Romance languages, but not so in other Indo-European languages from what I can see). It kind of has to do with the development of the idea of the Earth as a planet and not just a collection of material. Was Gaia the Goddess of Earth or the Goddess of the Land? Is there a difference?

Vulcan has three non-canon names: T'Khasi, Minshara, and Ti-Valka'in (presumably the origin of our adaptation of the word Vulcan to their panet, and the Klingons use of the word vulqan).

The use of "T'" or "Ti-" implies a feminine quality, from what we know of the predominant Vulcan culture's naming policy. The fan-created Vulcan Language Institute doesn't mention the latter two names (they are relatively new in the literature), but it states that T'Khasi is an ancient word of unknown etymology. The word for soil is solek, the word for desert is eshikh, the word for rock is kov. Which means that this guy is their version of The Rock.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Thanks for the in depth answer. You know, I once briefly considered studying linguistics post-secondary school. Now I write Christian music/book/movie reviews (volunteer), fanfiction, lyrics and memory alpha pages.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Vulcan has three non-canon names: T'Khasi, Minshara, and Ti-Valka'in (presumably the origin of our adaptation of the word Vulcan to their panet, and the Klingons use of the word vulqan).

Are these non-canonical names for the planet Vulcan itself, or for soil?

Not sure about the others, but Minshara is canon, at least in the context of it being a Vulcan term for a planet type. There's an early episode of ENT where T'Pol refers to a planet as Minshara class, and presumably that's where you get Class-M.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Are these non-canonical names for the planet Vulcan itself, or for soil?

Not sure about the others, but Minshara is canon, at least in the context of it being a Vulcan term for a planet type. There's an early episode of ENT where T'Pol refers to a planet as Minshara class, and presumably that's where you get Class-M.

This post from last month details a bit on the non-canon origins of the Vulcan planet names. "Minshara class" is, of course, canon. But I don't think it was used by anyone to refer to the planet Vulcan until Christopher Bennett used it in his novels.

As far as I can tell, there is no canonical and probably no non-canonical source for the word "soil" in the Vulcan language (there is no official Vulcan Dictionary). The Vulcan Language Institute I linked above is a fan project, that started from the works of Doohan and Okrand in the early TOS films and extrapolated from there. Alot of their work has bled into canon and more often non-canon, and their word for soil is "solek" (which sounds suspiciously like soil, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence). This is a Modern Golic Vulcan word.

----

Seperately, I was looking up the Klingon language, which is much, much more developed. And their planet (QonoS) is the modern Klingon word for journal. That's from the 1985 Klingon Dictionary and predates its use in Star Trek VI. I'm not sure why Okrand used that word (he was consulted for the name of the Klingon Homeworld). Probably something poetic about the homeworld being a journal of their history or something. The other words for QonoS (Klinzhai, Kling, Klingonii, Kazh) don't really apply in Okrand Klingon.

 

[Kor]

Maybe QonoS as a journal and QonoS as the planet name just happen to be homophones with different roots?

Kor

 

[Balok's Decoy]

(there is no official Vulcan Dictionary)

I wish this wrong would be made right. I'd love to see the Vulcan language be as expansive and established as Klingon has become.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Klingon sounds are fun to say. Plus, Vulcan words are often made up to suit the story. I created a Vulcan strategy game for one of my Kelvin reality fanfics, giving it the name vis-ner-kulas. I never said what it meant, though. I'll post the fic on the fic board.

EDIT: Here you go. http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/logic-starring-kelvin-verse-spock-and-mccoy.283817/

 

[Six of Twelve]

Many years ago, I'd seen QonoS spelled as Kronos and it was suggested that it was inspired by the Greek Titan god of time, which is variously spelled as Kronos, Chronos, Cronus. At the time, it made sense, considering Vulcan having the same name as the Roman god of the forge.

I'd read Klinzhai in some of the early Trek novels, as well as hearing Klingonii spoken in reference to the Klingon language in The Trouble With Tribbles in the bar fight scene.

As far as that goes, the early Trek novels had the Romulans refer to themselves as Rihannsu.

In the fan created Cardassian language, by linguist Esther Schrager, whose background is in Russian and Hebrew, the name for the dominant Cardassian language is Kardasi. A Kardasi script was also developed for writing this language.

 

[loghaD]

Seperately, I was looking up the Klingon language, which is much, much more developed. And their planet (QonoS) is the modern Klingon word for journal. That's from the 1985 Klingon Dictionary and predates its use in Star Trek VI. I'm not sure why Okrand used that word (he was consulted for the name of the Klingon Homeworld). Probably something poetic about the homeworld being a journal of their history or something. The other words for QonoS (Klinzhai, Kling, Klingonii, Kazh) don't really apply in Okrand Klingon.

Actually, there's one important difference between the names for the homeworld and the word for journal: The former is Qo'noS with a glottal stop and the latter is QonoS without one
It's quite common for completely different tlhIngan Hol words to be one glottal stop away from each other. For example, the word qay means "use the middle finger", and qay' means "be a hassle". Qay means "transfer", and Qay' means "blow one's top" or "use the little toe".
Similarly, the word QI means "bridge" (over water, for example, not the bridge of a ship) and QI' means "military".

I suspect that the name Qo'noS is etymologically related to the word qo' ("world"), but I don't know that for sure.

I wish this wrong would be made right. I'd love to see the Vulcan language be as expansive and established as Klingon has become.

Diane Duane once proposed the idea of creating a Romulan dictionary, which would have been amazing. However, her editor said that The Klingon Dictionary already wasn't doing so well, and there wasn't really demand for yet another Star Trek language.

It's possible this will get a change with Star Trek: Discovery. Bryan Fuller has tweeted that there are people working on expanding Vulcan, and if the show is popular enough and the Vulcans feature prominently enough, perhaps we'll see a Vulcan dictionary one day. Hopefully this also means that the show will be treating Star Trek languages seriously in general, rather than the rather sloppy approach taken in previous series.

Also, CBS Consumer Products has taken a greater interest in Star Trek's languages in recent years, which might improve the chances of ever seeing a Vulcan or Romulan dictionary. The Vulcan language group developed by Mark R. Gardner is absolutely beautiful, as are the writing systems created by Britton Watkins. I believe Dayton Ward consulted Mark Gardner for the Vulcan language portions of the Vulcan travel guide, which may go some way towards bringing this fan-created language into official works. Also, Britton Watkins did work on Star Trek Into Darkness, albeit as a Klingon language coach.

 

[locutus101]

Actually, there's one important difference between the names for the homeworld and the word for journal: The former is Qo'noS with a glottal stop and the latter is QonoS without one
It's quite common for completely different tlhIngan Hol words to be one glottal stop away from each other. For example, the word qay means "use the middle finger", and qay' means "be a hassle". Qay means "transfer", and Qay' means "blow one's top" or "use the little toe".
Similarly, the word QI means "bridge" (over water, for example, not the bridge of a ship) and QI' means "military".

I suspect that the name Qo'noS is etymologically related to the word qo' ("world"), but I don't know that for sure.


Diane Duane once proposed the idea of creating a Romulan dictionary, which would have been amazing. However, her editor said that The Klingon Dictionary already wasn't doing so well, and there wasn't really demand for yet another Star Trek language.

It's possible this will get a change with Star Trek: Discovery. Bryan Fuller has tweeted that there are people working on expanding Vulcan, and if the show is popular enough and the Vulcans feature prominently enough, perhaps we'll see a Vulcan dictionary one day. Hopefully this also means that the show will be treating Star Trek languages seriously in general, rather than the rather sloppy approach taken in previous series.

Also, CBS Consumer Products has taken a greater interest in Star Trek's languages in recent years, which might improve the chances of ever seeing a Vulcan or Romulan dictionary. The Vulcan language group developed by Mark R. Gardner is absolutely beautiful, as are the writing systems created by Britton Watkins. I believe Dayton Ward consulted Mark Gardner for the Vulcan language portions of the Vulcan travel guide, which may go some way towards bringing this fan-created language into official works. Also, Britton Watkins did work on Star Trek Into Darkness, albeit as a Klingon language coach.

Do you find opportunities to speak Klingon with other people? Are there books that are written or translated in the Klingon language?

 

[loghaD]

Do you find opportunities to speak Klingon with other people? Are there books that are written or translated in the Klingon language?

Speak with people: Just about every day online, but offline not very often. There's only one other guy in Sweden that I can have conversations with, and he lives in another city. I have attended a qepHom (annual klingonist gathering in Germany), however, which was incredible. At qep'a' (the KLI's annual meeting in the US) there are always people who take "the oath", which is to only speak in Klingon, either for a day or for the entire event.

There are some plays and other works which have been translated into Klingon. Hamlet, Much Ado About Nothing, Gilgamesh and Tao Te Ching off the top of my head.
The first full-length novel in Klingon, nuq bop bom, was written a couple of years ago. Apart from that, it's mostly short stories and long e-mail messages.

 

[locutus101]

Speak with people: Just about every day online, but offline not very often. There's only one other guy in Sweden that I can have conversations with, and he lives in another city. I have attended a qepHom (annual klingonist gathering in Germany), however, which was incredible. At qep'a' (the KLI's annual meeting in the US) there are always people who take "the oath", which is to only speak in Klingon, either for a day or for the entire event.

There are some plays and other works which have been translated into Klingon. Hamlet, Much Ado About Nothing, Gilgamesh and Tao Te Ching off the top of my head.
The first full-length novel in Klingon, nuq bop bom, was written a couple of years ago. Apart from that, it's mostly short stories and long e-mail messages.

It sounds like it's become a second Esperanto.

 

[NaughtyTrekkie]

It sounds like it's become a second Esperanto.

a useless thing?

 

[locutus101]

a useless thing?

Why do you say that?

Two million people speak Esperanto and the number is growing.

That's not bad for a language without a country.

 

[NaughtyTrekkie]

Why do you say that?

Two million people speak Esperanto and the number is growing.

That's not bad for a language without a country.

Mi parlas Esperanton (malbone).
Esperanto can be interesting, but no doubts it is useless

 

[locutus101]

Mi parlas Esperanton (malbone).
Esperanto can be interesting, but no doubts it is useless

Esperanto's utility rests on the number of people speaking it. It could easily become the international language of scientists for example. No need to translate theses in five or six languages anymore. That could be a real advantage.

 

[Six of Twelve]

Esperanto's utility rests on the number of people speaking it. It could easily become the international language of scientists for example. No need to translate theses in five or six languages anymore. That could be a real advantage.

English is pretty much Earth standard now. A large number of people speak it as a second language, as well as those who speak it as a first language. Just look at this forum with many of our members coming from non English speaking countries.

And, If I'm not mistaken, it's the language used all over the globe for communications between pilots and air traffic controllers.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Oh yeah? Well, bonvoro alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

And I think we all know what THAT means.

 

[Nyotarules]

8. What happens if a Borg assimilate another Borg?

They smoke a cigarette if it was good for them

 

[locutus101]

English is pretty much Earth standard now. A large number of people speak it as a second language, as well as those who speak it as a first language. Just look at this forum with many of our members coming from non English speaking countries.

And, If I'm not mistaken, it's the language used all over the globe for communications between pilots and air traffic controllers.

You're right. But Esperanto is so simple. You learn it about three times faster than any other language. It wouldn't take long to teach it to a large number of people, while English is currently fighting against Spanish for the world supremacy and it looks like English is losing.