Discovery: Mission New York

[USS Triumphant]

None of the Abrahamic religions could even cope with the idea of sentient species on different planets.

I think you're generalizing waaay too much. Remember how Catholicism and Christianity in general ended up with the Christmas tree, Easter eggs, and so on. Sure, there would be sects that would insist that there's still no such thing as aliens and therefore all of these "aliens" must be demons. But most would adapt to meet reality to whatever extent they would need to to survive. The Roman Catholic Church would have Andorians believing that Jesus came for them, too.

It must be hard trying to bow toward Mecca in deep space. They'd have to be aware of earth's heading at any given point.

The Abrahamic religions are sort of henotheistic at their core. In my opinion, that's part of why people (Jews and Christians, at least) like to bring back those little containers with a bit of the soil from the Holy Land when they go to Israel. All it would take is for a reasonable Imam to issue a fatwa that says that when they're away from Earth, Muslims can bow toward a soil sample *from* Mecca rather than toward Mecca itself. The difficulty would honestly not be imagining the ways that Islam would have to evolve to fit into the Federation. The difficulty would be that current *real world* fundamentalist Islamists would decide that doing so was somehow an insult to Islam and attack the production.

Did I mention how perfectly normal Julian Bashirs family seemed?

True. And being Egyptian (if I recall correctly), they very well could have been Muslim. Unlike some rather disgusting ideas put forward by POTUS candidates this election season, I doubt the Federation makes them wear badges or other indicators.

 

[jaime]

I think you're generalizing waaay too much. Remember how Catholicism and Christianity in general ended up with the Christmas tree, Easter eggs, and so on. Sure, there would be sects that would insist that there's still no such thing as aliens and therefore all of these "aliens" must be demons. But most would adapt to meet reality to whatever extent they would need to to survive. The Roman Catholic Church would have Andorians believing that Jesus came for them, too.

The Abrahamic religions are sort of henotheistic at their core. In my opinion, that's part of why people (Jews and Christians, at least) like to bring back those little containers with a bit of the soil from the Holy Land when they go to Israel. All it would take is for a reasonable Imam to issue a fatwa that says that when they're away from Earth, Muslims can bow toward a soil sample *from* Mecca rather than toward Mecca itself. The difficulty would honestly not be imagining the ways that Islam would have to evolve to fit into the Federation. The difficulty would be that current *real world* fundamentalist Islamists would decide that doing so was somehow an insult to Islam and attack the production.

True. And being Egyptian (if I recall correctly), they very well could have been Muslim. Unlike some rather disgusting ideas put forward by POTUS candidates this election season, I doubt the Federation makes them wear badges or other indicators.

Not only were they vaguely middle eastern (his mother seemed Indian, so from a religious perspective it may have been a 'mixed' marriage) but they were vaguely middle eastern British, and fairly well done (as opposed to the stereotypes of Brits we usually got in Trek.) They reminded me of some of my mates parents when I was at school. Ian Andrew Troi of course has also been retrofit as a Londoner in the novels. Should I push for cockney representation in the new series? A petition? Or are we likely to have died out by the 23rd century.....(cue character with Cockney Mysticism a la Spock.....)

 

[eyeresist]

re Bashir and family, what I found more interesting than ethnicity was the difference in accents. Bashir sounded fairly posh but his father was more working class. It's not reality-breaking, but suggestive of what happens when different generations have different opportunities and surroundings.

No streaming? You don't go out to one of those big red/blue boxes and buy physical media off the street do you?

I watch TV and order DVDs from Amazon. Also some Youtube videos, but I tend to do that at work.

 

[jaime]

re Bashir and family, what I found more interesting than ethnicity was the difference in accents. Bashir sounded fairly posh but his father was more working class. It's not reality-breaking, but suggestive of what happens when different generations have different opportunities and surroundings.


I watch TV and order DVDs from Amazon. Also some Youtube videos, but I tend to do that at work.

It's also suggestive of what happens when we try really really hard not to sound like our parents. Or watch different TV. Or don't want to sound like the villainous henchmen. And it all backfires when idiots think you sound posh and make assumptions.

I told you Bashirs family seemed familiar.

On a related note, having just finished Seekers book 3 can someone explain what a snog is to David Mack?

 

[eyeresist]

Snog = this:

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[JoeCabby]

It must be hard trying to bow toward Mecca in deep space. They'd have to be aware of earth's heading at any given point.

It's the future, I'm sure there's an app for that.

Mecca is at 173 Mark 43. Tap here to change your room's gravity so that you may bow directly to Mecca.

 

[jaime]

It's the future, I'm sure there's an app for that.

Mecca is at 173 Mark 43. Tap here to change your room's gravity so that you may bow directly to Mecca.

*donk crash* *supplicant closes eyes and mutters between gritted teeth* Every damned time with the ornamental vase. Every time. *supplicant considers for the hundredth time getting an antigravity doily for his vase from his mother in law* *Alert sounds and supplicant smashes knees into side of door trying to get over sideways door and falls to the deck in the corridor and mutters* Catholics got it easy....and Commander Lev gets more time off...rassum frassum

 

[Ronald Held]

Is Kristen "only" writing books and comics, not TV scripts?

 

[Noname Given]

Please No! Trek tended to avoid modern religion. Aliens had it but Earth-based religion was not in it as far as I can recall. I took it to imply that it was largely a post-religion society which is what we should expect some 250 years from now. Including someone with middle eastern roots is fine, but including a practicing muslim, that is insane.

I googled it and apparently Gene was an atheist and his vision clearly had a future with no human religion. None of the Abrahamic religions could even cope with the idea of sentient species on different planets. They can't even cope with different Abrahamic religions.

To be fair the TOS era 1701 had a Chapel on board ship - and there was a wedding performed in it in "Balance of Terror" - and it was used again for Kirk's funeral scene in "The Tholian Web". Then there was Uhura's discovery about the 'sun' worsippers actually being 'son' (as in son of God) worshippers in "Bread and Circuses" <-- A script that was actually written by GR.
^^^
And I'd say these examples are relevant given the time frame the new series takes place in.

Yes, Star trek tended to avoid religion - but it was still shown in the series from time to time.

 

[jaime]

To be fair the TOS era 1701 had a Chapel on board ship - and there was a wedding performed in it in "Balance of Terror" - and it was used again for Kirk's funeral scene in "The Tholian Web". Then there was Uhura's discovery about the 'sun' worsippers actually being 'son' (as in son of God) worshippers in "Bread and Circuses" <-- A script that was actually written by GR.
^^^
And I'd say these examples are relevant given the time frame the new series takes place in.

Yes, Star trek tended to avoid religion - but it was still shown in the series from time to time.

And human religions were always shown, the few times they were, as benevolent. Too much is made of Picard vs Ardra once the keyboard warriors start up (on both sides)

I do think all religion in Trek usually stays on the personal side, and isn't usually a driving part of the narrative. The exception to this are the Bajorans and Vulcans. And the Vulcans, bound by logic and reason and science....believe in the soul, have proven its existence, and have mystic ceremonies and arranged marriages.

We don't need a focus on earth religion, Trek uses aliens to talk about those issues, it's kind of its point ( word of God, Nichelle Nichols recounting a conversation with Gene Rodenberry...Star Trek is morality plays) everything we have a problem with now has been resolved as far as humanity is concerned. Whether that means gender reassignment is done by a quick step in a medical transporter and would only crop up if we see a characters birth records (Captain Norman Wildman in 2425 punched out a twentieth century defrost job who stumbled on his) and religion is up to you, just don't wear anything silly on the bridge (Ensign Prem, stop looking smug with your earring, or I will go Sisko on you.) and don't let silly rituals interfere with your duties beyond reason (Lieutenant Spork, you cannot have time off for Ponn Farr, you used that excuse last year, and Commander Begum, I know for a fact that sun is down on earth and by our shipboard computers, so you may not dodge the Klingon Day of Honour meal this evening.)

 

[Michael]

Sure, in the past Trek tended to present a future without any Earth religions. As an atheist myself, most of the time I welcomed this. Even though I quite enjoyed Deep Space Nine's foray into the powers of religion and its institutions through the Bajorans.

Considering for a moment the fact, though, that today we live in a time where the mere fact that someone is a muslim means that they have to be the target of suspicion, I think it would be simply marvelous to have a character of islamic beliefs, demonstrating that in the future we as a society have learned that having a particular set of beliefs doesn't mean you have to be a bad or unreasonable person.

I think it would be amazing to have a believer who sees his beliefs challenged by what they discover out in space. I'm convinced such a character and such a story would be something that's quite fitting in a science-fiction setting.