Discovery Klingons: Flat or Bumpy?

[johnjm22]

Based on Fuller's comments about pushing the designs of familiar aliens into territory that will be more challenging for fans to duplicate, it's a fair bet that the new Klingons will be more like the Abrams variety than the Westmore version.

Yes they will be re imagined to a degree, but I think they'll still be in the ilk of both iterations of the prime Klingons.

I like the Klingons from TUC. They're kind of a blend between TOS Klingons and the newer prime version Klingons. I also like the fact that more of them have lighter skin tone. An updated version of these ones would be good IMO.

 

[Stewey]

The date of 2218 isn't mentioned specifically in canon.

Kor

It was stated in "The day of the dove" fron TOS and expanded upon by Picard in "First Contact" (the TNG episode), when he said that it was a disastrous event that led to nearly a century of hostilities.

 

[OpenMaw]

It was stated in "The day of the dove" fron TOS and expanded upon by Picard in "First Contact" (the TNG episode), when he said that it was a disastrous event that led to nearly a century of hostilities.

I've watched Day of the Dove so many times... There's never a specific date of contact referenced.

 

[Stewey]

I've watched Day of the Dove so many times... There's never a specific date of contact referenced.

My mistake, it was referenced solely in the TNG episode "First Contact"

 

[Seven of Five]

I think that episode just mentioned first contact with the Klingons occurring "centuries ago."

Trek scripts over the years mention a lot of events occurring 25 years ago, 50 years ago, or a century ago. Whilst I loved the Star Trek Chronology when I was younger, it used to take these times far too literally. For example if I was talking about when I started working at my current job, I'd just say 11 years. I wouldn't say it was 11 years, 3 months and 11 days, just to be anal.

We are the only people that limit our imagination at the end of the day.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

I'm realizing that as much as I like the various kinds of Klingons, I'd be just as happy with something new. It really doesn't matter to me though as long as they do something creative that serves the story.

The greatest mistake by far was when Enterprise tried to come up with an explanation of the visual disparities.

Just pick a great look and go with it.

Agreed. The only reason I think they might have different versions is to serve the story. Our species is made up of many races, why isn't every other humanoid species? It's a way to develop them and their culture to a level we haven't seen yet. Part of what Trek needs in modern times is a more fleshed out characters beyond the command crew. Doing what they did with Dukat with other characters. We saw Martok for years and they only scratched the surface of his history. Gowron debuted in 1991 and we learned almost nothing about him in 8 years.

As for how the ridges will look will probably depend on the current state-of-the-art regarding makeup/cgi under TV time and budget constraints. The turtlehead ridges of TNG weren't an aesthetic choice as much as a production choice. How fast they can make up a character, and ridges that can be re-used on different actors to save time and money, etc.

With the extra time and money allotted to the new production who knows what we'll see. Maybe they'll just slap green skull caps on them and add the ridges in post production and then the ridges can be as subtle or pronounced as they want.

 

[JoeCabby]

Ridges and any smooth heads are too embarassed and wear fake ridges like toupes.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I kinda doubt that. Klingons wouldn't stoop that low. The QuchHa' (as the novels call them) are probably none too happy about the situation but they would never wear fake ridges. Hell, the Klingons don't even wear rank insignia on their uniforms, because they would be offended at the suggestion that they are any rank other than what they say they are...

I think that episode just mentioned first contact with the Klingons occurring "centuries ago."

Yes, that is exactly what it says. It never pins down an exact date, or event, for Klingon/Human first contact. Nothing in Trek ever did.

 

[Mudd]

The episode was "First Contact." Picard says

"Centuries ago, a disastrous contact with the Klingon Empire led to decades of war. It was decided then we would do surveillance before making contact."

My thought about this was that humans and Klingons got off to a really bad start because human beings assumed too much similarity in values, with the result that we insulted the Klingons and made ourselves look weak. I never thought that we immediately started a shooting war. However, none of that is discussed in the episode.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

The episode was "First Contact." Picard says

"Centuries ago, a disastrous contact with the Klingon Empire led to decades of war. It was decided then we would do surveillance before making contact."

My thought about this was that humans and Klingons got off to a really bad start because human beings assumed too much similarity in values, with the result that we insulted the Klingons and made ourselves look weak. I never thought that we immediately started a shooting war. However, none of that is discussed in the episode.

I agree. If the disastrous contact meant an immediate shooting war, the federation might very well have been wiped out. Or set back a century. A decades long war would most likely take time to heat up. Years of animosity, vying for similar territory, seemingly incompatible values, etc. BUT all that probably would have started with the destruction/execution of the federation envoy to the Klingon border. That's a given.

 

[Mudd]

There's a story from the 1950s (?) by Robert Sheckley titled All The Things You Are that gives a rather whimsical description of a first contact gone really, really wrong which I thought of as a good model for the human/Klingon encounter. Basically, every presumptive human gesture of friendliness by a careless ship's captain in his first encounter with a new species causes trouble.

What's not directly transferable from that story, which was a humorous piece, was that basic incompatibilities between the human and extraterrestrial species were the root of the problem - for example, the human captain impulsively offered the local leader his hand, whereupon it turns out that human perspiration had a caustic effect on the non-human's skin.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

That's why if there really were aliens, they'd nuke us from orbit looooong before we started a space club.

 

[The_Baroness]

In canon, it is specifically stated that first contact with the Klingons took place in 2218 and it is unknown if they had ridges at that time and became smooth until the motion picture. There is an explanation for this as alluded by Worf but has since never been explained in canon.

What's canon is that first contact was in 2151 according to Broken Bow.

Enterprise later explained the lack of ridges in TOS era Klingons too.

 

[Mudd]

What's canon is that first contact was in 2151 according to Broken Bow.

Enterprise later explained the lack of ridges in TOS era Klingons too.

All true. Canon has only one meaningful definition with respect to Star Trek.

 

[Dr. Bashirs protege]

How could it possibly be flat? You're going to have the "villain" species painted in brown face and be essentially visible minorities. Uh huh, that would go well. For the record we all know that's not what they would be insinuating, only an idiot equate the look of a species to a minority group in current times and then draw their conclusions. But there's ALOT of idiots out there, and they all have keyboards now

 

[Mudd]

Klingons have forehead ridges. They don't look like human beings. That's the way it's been since 1979 and the way it will be from now on.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Now that we know Discovery is based 5 years before the adventures of Kirk and crew in The Original Series and that one of the main cast might be a Klingon Admiral, the big question I have is what would you like to see on screen? Flat or bumpy?

Both at the same time, like Klingon Two-Face.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

Both at the same time, like Klingon Two-Face.

From either side....Glorrrious. We miss you, John C.

 

[OpenMaw]

I'd personally love to see a more subdued look for the Klingon make ups. Outside of TMP and TSFS where the brutality of the Klingons seemed to take center-stage, I didn't care for the animalistic Klingons we kept getting.

Keep the ridges, lose the teeth, give the Klingons variations in hair styles and skin tones. I want my Klingons to be both ruthless, cunning, and charismatic, intelligent, etc... I never really got that from any of the TNG Klingons except maybe K'mpec and K'ehleyr. The rest always came off like they were two seconds from eating peoples faces... Not exactly the kind of a species I can see mastering warp drive and conquering a chunk of the galaxy. Get rid of that unbridaled "need" for combat and blood lust.

TOS Klingons were aggressive because they believed they had to be to survive in a dangerous galaxy. A galaxy that apparently had taught them some cruel lessons. Mara in Day of the Dove implies their expansionism has caused problems for their colony worlds, but it seems they were urged to expand for fear of being conquered.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

Klingons have forehead ridges. They don't look like human beings. That's the way it's been since 1979 and the way it will be from now on.

If it was an unexplained or even only partially explained (no further than Worf's explanation in Trials and Tribbs) then I would agree they would ignore the flathead. But now the flatheads are deeply ingrained in canonical story, and not just any story but the one about Khan's people.
This is where I differ in opinion on the soft reboot. I don't believe they'll throw out the events of a major 3-part Trek story or any story from any of the series. And because of those events they can now explore a whole new avenue of Klingon culture.
Now in terms of redesign, who says the flatheads need to be human looking with brown skin? Even the more recent visuals of Enterprise can be redesigned or explained as they already look different because of reassertion of the Klingon DNA. Maybe the flatheads have rougher texture skin, or even do have ridges that are barely noticeable except up close or are partially hidden under a human hairline. The two versions don't need to be night and day since the audience no longer needs to be beat over the head with a metaphor. Just different enough to cause a rift that opens up story possibilities. (maybe leading to an ethnic cleansing metaphor where starfleet has to come in and mediate).