Robbed of Seasons 5-7

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Just gotta remember, though: Starfleet isn't 'the military' It's Starfleet.

I'm not getting into one of those debates again, except to say this: For all intents and purposes Starfleet is a military, no matter what they claim themselves. They serve a military function (among other things) and could be called the Girl Scouts for all I care, they would still be a military.

 

[Willow]

I must admit ... Jonathan Archer's selection as commander does smack of politics, rather than practicality.

So apparently things to change too much in that regard in the next 150 years!

 

[2takesfrakes]

Nopes! Apparently not ...

 

[Samurai8472]

I never really liked Archer, although he became more tolerable as the seasons progressed. In fact I've never quite cared for most of the Trek captains, with the exception of Kirk and Sisko.

I'm rewatching season 1 repeats and it just strike me how childish he is

"Fallen Hero"

He acts like a spoiled brat when the Vulcans don't tell him why the ambassador is guilty.


"They're doing it again! They're holding us back!"

Jeez it's like Archer turned into Anakin Skywalker


"Vox Sola"

Bad communications with another species and Archer sulks in his quarters like a spoiled kid

Tucker has to persuade him to watch a water polo match to cheer him up.


I realize it was supposed make him more human but it didn't work out properly

 

[WB2]

The original poster answers his own question. The show didn't become good until the last season.

 

[eyeresist]

I'm rewatching season 1 repeats and it just strike me how childish he is

"Fallen Hero"

He acts like a spoiled brat when the Vulcans don't tell him why the ambassador is guilty.

"They're doing it again! They're holding us back!"

Jeez it's like Archer turned into Anakin Skywalker

Way to misunderstand the episode. When Archer says "They're doing it to us again, Admiral. Keeping us in the dark," he has gone out of his way to do this mission as a favour to the Vulcans, despite their request seeming more like an order. Enterprise has just been attacked, and the Vulcan ambassador still refuses to say who is attacking or why they are after her. Any reasonable (human) person would say the Vulcans were being dicks.

http://www.chakoteya.net/Enterprise/23.htm

 

[apollo1984]

Way to misunderstand the episode. When Archer says "They're doing it to us again, Admiral. Keeping us in the dark," he has gone out of his way to do this mission as a favour to the Vulcans, despite their request seeming more like an order. Enterprise has just been attacked, and the Vulcan ambassador still refuses to say who is attacking or why they are after her. Any reasonable (human) person would say the Vulcans were being dicks.

http://www.chakoteya.net/Enterprise/23.htm

I agree, at this point he is putting his ship and crew at risk every second that he is heading for the Vulcan ship to transport someone about whom no-one in starfleet has details of, I think Archer was quite right to want to know why she was worth risking it all to get her there safely.

I mean also don't forget it's not exactly as if they have the best and most powerful star ship out there, they defeated enemies more with cunning and being resourceful.

 

[eyeresist]

Yes, I actually really like Fallen Hero because of the chase element: Enterprise pushing her warp drive to the limit, achieving warp 5 but almost falling apart, and the countdown of how long they can last vs how long to reach the Vulcan fleet.


And another thing:

"Vox Sola"

Bad communications with another species and Archer sulks in his quarters like a spoiled kid

Tucker has to persuade him to watch a water polo match to cheer him up.

I realize it was supposed make him more human but it didn't work out properly

An attempt to open relations with a new species (a big part of Enterprise's mission) ends in failure, Archer feels a little down -> worst captain ever? Another ridiculous criticism.

Vox Sola is not a great ep (due to generic threat, crew bickering, and poor CGI), but the first 10 minutes or so are actually excellent, due to seeing a "slice of life" view of the mission when things don't go their way, and interesting character development for pretty much all the characters except Phlox (who doesn't turn up until the second half of the ep).

TRAVIS: Are you staying for the movie tonight?
REED: What's playing?
TRAVIS: Wages of Fear. Classic French film. No, you'll like it. Things blow up.
REED: Oh, sounds fun.

 

[Anna Yolei]

So apparently things to change too much in that regard in the next 150 years!

Side note: I read the book "White-Jacket" by Melville Hermann which was inspired by his time in the Navy in the 1840s, in 2011 during my own deployment. Apart from superficial changes and the lack of caning as a result of public outcry after the book was published, it stuck me just how little had changed in 160 years.

 

[Willow]

Side note: I read the book "White-Jacket" by Melville Hermann which was inspired by his time in the Navy in the 1840s, in 2011 during my own deployment. Apart from superficial changes and the lack of caning as a result of public outcry after the book was published, it stuck me just how little had changed in 160 years.

Thank you for your service! And I see under your avatar that you are a "vice admiral" on TrekBBS....did you make it that far IRL? (If I'm reading your reply correctly, that you are/were navy...I was army myself )

 

[Anna Yolei]

Lol. I enlisted and was in for five years before getting out last summer. Made it to E-4 because I ended up in a rate with very little advancement.

The Vice Admiral thing is because I had far too much computer time as a teenager and racked up 95 percent of those posts between 2003 and 2006 Then I left as the other ENT fans that posted here left and came back to let the TNZ folks know about the death of another former former poster who was a long time admin of the board I now co-run, and kinda stayed when I realized it wasn't quite the zoo I remembered it to be.

 

[Willow]

Lol. I enlisted and was in for five years before getting out last summer. Made it to E-4 because I ended up in a rate with very little advancement.

The Vice Admiral thing is because I had far too much computer time as a teenager and racked up 95 percent of those posts between 2003 and 2006 Then I left as the other ENT fans that posted here left and came back to let the TNZ folks know about the death of another former former poster who was a long time admin of the board I now co-run, and kinda stayed when I realized it wasn't quite the zoo I remembered it to be.

Wow..so you were here back in the day of the original run! That must've been crazy! I only just found ENT a few years ago via Netlix, so I missed out on all the crazy. I can only imagine what the boards were like after the original airing of TATV!

 

[Anna Yolei]

Oh God! I wish I'd had the foresight to save some of those! You had all of it together: the gloating bashers happy for ENT's demise; the angry Tucker fans; the Archer fans gloating about Tucker; both posters who liked the ending unironically for reasons other than the sinking of USS T/T'P (currently in the witness protection service, presumably); and everyone else who was livid that OUR gorram finale got hijacked by Berman and Braga's self congratulatory ode to TNG that did none of them any favors, either. Oh maaaaaaaaaan. That takes me back

But yeah. These past few weeks I've been browsing here are the first time since the show ended in 2005 (!!!) that there isnt an active TATV hate thread going on. Most people know what's coming, so it makes a difference, I think, for why the hate has waned. But we got the last laugh cuz after the Kevin time line ours is the only show that's still intact AND got a major shout out in the new film!

 

[T'Nara]

Oh God! I wish I'd had the foresight to save some of those! You had all of it together: the gloating bashers happy for ENT's demise; the angry Tucker fans; the Archer fans gloating about Tucker; both posters who liked the ending unironically for reasons other than the sinking of USS T/T'P (currently in the witness protection service, presumably); and everyone else who was livid that OUR gorram finale got hijacked by Berman and Braga's self congratulatory ode to TNG that did none of them any favors, either. Oh maaaaaaaaaan. That takes me back

I can imagine how mad it was back in the day - discussions must be as heated as the discussions today about the kelvin timeline movies.

But we got the last laugh cuz after the Kevin time line ours is the only show that's still intact AND got a major shout out in the new film!

Yes we do! And deservingly so. I still wonder what is not to like about ENT that it has so many haters.
Anyway glad the new movies give a lot of nods to ENT. I wonder if the upcoming DSC will also give nods to ENT. It has the potential to, timeline-wise.

 

[Anna Yolei]

A lot of the hate was burnout on fandom's end, too. The same creative team(using the term very loosely) that fucked upVoyager was in charge and after that less than inspired finale, people were done with them. I've noticed a lot of the board these days is made up of Trek fans that dismissed the show on the first go and caught it on Netflix not that long ago. After Ryan Murphy tanked Glee for me, I can completely empathize with that group as to why they didn't give the show a chance.

 

[T'Nara]

A lot of the hate was burnout on fandom's end, too. The same creative team(using the term very loosely) that fucked upVoyager was in charge and after that less than inspired finale, people were done with them. I've noticed a lot of the board these days is made up of Trek fans that dismissed the show on the first go and caught it on Netflix not that long ago. After Ryan Murphy tanked Glee for me, I can completely empathize with that group as to why they didn't give the show a chance.

So it's a case of not good enough job on the writers' part, and too high expectations from the fans?

 

[Anna Yolei]

Kinda. I wouldn't say fans expecting fewer appearances of familiar species and more stories that couldn't be done in TNG or Voyager was a high expectation.

One example of wasted potential is Unexpected, where Trip gets pregnant. The use of the holodeck, which fandom shit a collective brick over, is the least of that stories problem when they turned Trip's pregnancy into a cliche that most sitcoms would be embarrassed by today. Here was an opperutuny to do something--anything--new. Couldve discussed adoption or abortion or even the fact that his impregnation would've never happened if Ah'Len didn't lie by omission (I'd use stronger language on what I think it was, but this isn't TNZ).

I didn't come to the boards till about midway of season three but after DS9 and TNG (apart from the no conflict within the crew thing Roddenberry put in place), I can understand why many fans left in those lean years. There shouldn't have BEEN lean years to begin with. How much of the fault lies with the producers, with Paramount and UPN is up for debate. Suffice it to say they are all damn lucky JJ put Trek back on the map.

 

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Wow..so you were here back in the day of the original run! That must've been crazy! I only just found ENT a few years ago via Netlix, so I missed out on all the crazy. I can only imagine what the boards were like after the original airing of TATV!

Yeah, I was also here during that time. I posted a scathing review of TATV (or "the abomination" as we like to call it) that some Sci-Fi Magazine then actually quoted from.

But we got the last laugh cuz after the Kevin time line ours is the only show that's still intact AND got a major shout out in the new film!

Hrmupf! I won't stand to have my BBS name sullied to being connected to the Abramsverse!

 

[Anna Yolei]

You got quoted? Wow! Do you have a copy of it somewhere?

Oh, and do you have a copy of any version of Persianmouse's Steps to TATV on Traixaian Silk? She came over briefly to Wordforge in 2005- 06 and posted it there, but she disappeared from the net and the board shit itself and we lost all the posts prior to 2007 I never got to save it, but that was funny as shit.

 

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

You got quoted? Wow! Do you have a copy of it somewhere?

Maybe, I'll have to search through my extensive computer archive. I never had the magazine itself, just someone's scan.

Oh, and do you have a copy of any version of Persianmouse's Steps to TATV on Traixaian Silk? She came over briefly to Wordforge in 2005- 06 and posted it there, but she disappeared from the net and the board shit itself and we lost all the posts prior to 2007 I never got to save it, but that was funny as shit.

Again, maybe. I'll have a look around...