Sela in the dark Minds Eye/Redemption

[SAndrews10]

I'm watching the HD Next Gen Blu Ray transfers for the first time on Netflix and I love how due to the high quality of the picture it is now blantly obviously in THE MINDS EYE that it's not Denise Crosby in the dark. Heck it's not even the dark anymore, you can totally make out the other woman's face and the overdub of Denise's line doesn't even match the stand in talking.

And in Redmeptiom you can totally tell its Denise in the shadows. If someone was watching this for the first time the HD team has created an almost continuity error. You'd think somebody at CBS overseeing this would've darkened or obscured the image somehow.

 

[Jedman67]

I didn't find Sela's character to be particularly likeable in any of her episodes.

 

[suarezguy]

These kind of newly revealed and noticable flaws and inconsistencies seem to happen so much with HD it's hard to see the appeal.

 

[JesterFace]

I think it was kind of dumb to throw in Sela to 'The Mind's Eye', if you only watch that episode alone, it makes no sense for somebody to be whispering in the shadows.

 

[2takesfrakes]

If you think it's Denise playing her in the shadows, it's Sela. If you see it's Denise, it's Sela. The audience should quite simply believe that the character they're watching - that Sela - is who's onscreen. Her stuntwoman gets dolled up as Sela and is made to act out a scene, as that character,. she's not playing Denise Crosby. She's playing Sela. Yes, it would be nice if she always was played by Denise for every situation and circumstance, in a perfect world ... but if it can't be that way, that's fine, too. The Show Must Go On ...

 

[Paradise City]

Crosby's return but as Sela is interesting. I actually liked her in The Mind's Eye episode in the background personally observing a project involving her own mother's old ship. Lot's of twisted pathology wrapped up in that little number. I don't really remember assimilating whether the silhouette stood scrutiny. I understood and accepted what the writers where trying to convey via her voice. So I kind of forgave the ill-fitting silhouette thing.

The thing with Sela is that no Romulan make up is applied. She just gets a wig and she looks inadequately portrayed because of it. Which is unfortunate because I think she effectively delivers the dialogue successfully conveying a kind of concise malevolence. Some recessive Romulan physical features would've been a nice finishing touch. Bit of slapstick in the Unification PII as the writers seemed to rush the ending of that episode which ended the character on a poor note. I sometimes idly reflect that they missed a beat not bringing back Sela in DS9. Perhaps as the official that Sisko had to convince before Garak blew up the ship. Or that they didn't have Tasha executed and bring her back a much older woman for a cameo. Or, indeed, amusing at least, to see her replace Shinzon as an antagonist in Nemesis.

Anyway, overall I enjoyed the Sela two parters. I enjoyed the way Trek history converges in them. Everything from the Khitomer conference involving Sarek and Spock, to the Khitomer attack years later which involved Worf, to Narendra III which involves Yar and the legacy of how Yar and Worf rebound in their different ways created a great sense historical flow which I appreciated back then particularly given that these these episodes and TUC where released at roughly the same time.

 

[UnknownSample]

Sela was just a shoehorned-in gimmick to me. What does she say... "Humans have a way of showing up when you least expect them"? Eh? They do? What?

 

[JesterFace]

Sela was just a shoehorned-in gimmick to me. What does she say... "Humans have a way of showing up when you least expect them"? Eh? They do? What?

Actors have a way of showing up back in shows they have left when it becomes more succesfull.

 

[BillJ]

I didn't find Sela's character to be particularly likeable in any of her episodes.

It was a cool idea. Crosby just didn't have the acting chops to pull it off.

Actors have a way of showing up back in shows they have left when it becomes more succesfull.

A paycheck is far more powerful than dignity.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Denise Crosby had a hand in helping to set up and establish TNG, that First Season. And I love her, for that. I would've been happy, if she never left the show. She was OK as an actress and very beautiful. But she thought she was hot shit and was going to set the world on fire, solo. So, her coming back to TNG after, comes off as a come-down, really. I want to like Sela, but between that and the fact that the character seemed more functional, than necessary, mostly, I just never made the connect. The blonde wig looked false, it should've been another colour, or styled another way, it just didn't look like it was a part of her head. The casting did seem kind of forced, there. On the other hand ...

When Sela met Picard, for the first time, I found it very moving, emotionally. Particularly when he asks her, not trusting her and seemingly aware that Yar is not her favourite subject, anyway, "... I'd like to see your mother. Can you arrange that?" Sir Patrick Stewart's delivery is really, really good, there. The tonality strongly suggests his desperate desire to believe Sela's claim, his uncertainty regarding if he did, in fact meet her, then he is, actually, made to feel guilty about the past, and all the while, trying to present a strong front to this mystery woman. But he really wants to see Yar, if at all possible and you just know he'd do whatever it takes to rescue her from the Romulans, if it came to that. Stewart's an expert at finding the best reading of a line and I love it that TNG got him.

 

[Ghrakh]

Sela was just a shoehorned-in gimmick to me. What does she say... "Humans have a way of showing up when you least expect them"? Eh? They do? What?

Yes, the full "reveal" in Redemption; The Mind's Eye was a teaser I guess, which was a build-up to one scene in Redemption (conference room) and then that was it...ultimately that whole storyline was a big yawner. Worf didn't even react when she was on the monitor talking to Lursa and B'Etor later on. WTH? And then in Unification, she's the one that interacts with Spock...considering there were already much more interesting Romulan characters, why her? What about Tomalak? Tebok? Taris? ugh. Sela was a terribly written and conceived character.

 

[Seven of Five]

Yeah Tomalak interacting with Spock would have been something.

As for Sela, I like the idea of her, just not the execution of it. I think the tease of who she was is interesting, and like 2takesfrakes said, the initial scene between Picard and Sela was very good, and somewhat poignant. It's a shame they didn't build on it.

I realise Crosby was weak in the role, and the producers probably realised the character wasn't the best fit, yet I find her sudden disappearance after Unification a bit strange.

 

[UnknownSample]

The casting was set, since D Crosby claims, at least, that the idea of Sela came from her. I think it was really a soap-opera-ish milking of a great time travel situation from Yesterday's Enterprise, for the sake of a big fan squee, and Denise Crosby just wanting back in somehow.

 

[M-Red]

I like Yar and have no problem with Crosby.

But I also view Sela as one of the worst decisions ever made in TNG.

 

[iMike]

I like Yar and have no problem with Crosby.

But I also view Sela as one of the worst decisions ever made in TNG.

I love the idea of Sela, and I think tying her character origins into "Yesterday's Enterprise" was brilliant. Sela could have been a very big foil for Picard, but I think the character was poorly conceived. I don't think that was Denise Crosby's acting, I think it was a lack of proper planning.

We first the shadow of Sela in "The Mind's Eye," which is a great tease. "Redemption" was a great introduction. It would make sense that as a Romulan agent she would be trying to influence the Klingon civil war on behalf of the Duras sisters. I enjoyed her scenes with Picard. The only real problem I have with Sela is that her inclusion in "Unification" seems like nothing more than after thought. Any random Romulan agent could have fulfilled the role of Sela in "Unification." After the events in "Redemption," if we were going to actually see Sela again why not have an episode actually dedicated to her, exploring her backstory and her growth as a Romulan agent? From the interviews given by Denise in the TNG Blu-Rays, she seemed more than willing to come back as a guest star at any time, surely an episode about Sela, perhaps in Season Five or even Season Six with an origin story episode.

Aside from that, my only other complaint with Sela is that she basically looks identical to Yar except for the blond hair, the ears, and a Romulan haircut. Surely the makeup team could have given Denise a bit more of a Romulan appearance. Being half-human I find it odd that the only visible Romulan trait are the ears.

 

[E-DUB]

I always had kind of my own take on Sela. I've wondered if the story she gave Picard about her origin was totally true. Not that she didn't believe it, mind you, but that Sela was, from the start, literally conceived by the Tal-Shiar as an attempt to create a sort of Romulan Spock, a hybrid who could perhaps transcend the qualities of both parent species.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Quite possible. Sela could have been lying through her teeth with every word she said to Picard. There's literally no reason to believe a word she says.

 

[Marsden]

I don't have strong feelings about Sela, but the possibility she caused less Tomalak appearances makes me dislike her.

She was good for a stinger moment, and then diminishing returns until an off screen disappearance.

It's too bad Sela wasn't who the Enterprise killed in Generations instead of Lursa and B'etor.

 

[JesterFace]

Isn't Sela a bit of a paradox, her mother came from a timeline that never actually existed, except what we saw in 'Yesterday's Enterprise', events that basically never happened...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There is no such thing as a timeline that "never" existed. Obviously the Ent-C war timeline did exist. It's been overwritten and returned to normal, but it DID EXIST. Things can never "un-happen".

 

[Endgame]

Spoiler alert: "Sela" the head of Tal Shiar? I shall have to review some of the TV shows, I guess. And read more of the novelverse.

 

[matthunter]

Spoiler alert: "Sela" the head of Tal Shiar? I shall have to review some of the TV shows, I guess. And read more of the novelverse.

She's also a fairly major part of the plotline in Star Trek Online, which is set 30 years after the destruction of Romulus and the disappearance of Spock and Nero into the Abhramsverse (the game is still set in the Prime timeline)