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HUGE Mr Sulu Spoiler

This should not be as big of a deal as it is.

Exactly. Star Trek had fifty fucking years to address this. Four spinoff series in a time when gay people were gaining more and more acceptance and representation in mainstream culture. It isn't Pegg or Lin's fault that they were the one's to finally address it.

The last pop entertainment bastion for white straight homophobes is no more. That is what's important.
 
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Exactly. Star Trek had fifty fucking years to address this. Four spinoff series in a time when gay people were gaining more and more acceptance and representation in mainstream culture. It isn't Pegg or Lin's fault that they were the one's to finally address it.

The last pop entertainment bastion for white straight homophobes is no more. That is what's important.

This. Sulu's heterosexuality has been sacrificed for the greater good. The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the one... you know the drill.

And he's bi, not gay. Got that? Bi. No retcon is needed.
 
'Retcon' feels like the wrong term.

The current creative team gets to make whatever changes they want to the new timeline.

There's no reason to believe that any of these changes can or should affect the original timeline.

If individual fans choose to 'retcon' aspects of the original timeline on their own, they are free to do so.

I don't see why everyone can't have their cake and eat it too, on this one...
 
You are right, she is still alive, but she might as well be dead. She was just there giving birth. Even in the deleted young Kirk scene, they rather introduced a stepfather than use her again. We still hear his voice though, while young Kirk is driving the car.
Well the stepfather/uncle is a "bad guy". So I'd rather Winona wasn't placed in thast role. Though I would have liked to have seen Winona in additional scenes, but I would prefer them to be scenes that advanced Kirk's character.
And I haven't seen Beyond yet. Maybe Jaylah's race joins the Federation or is already a member? She could join the ship, if they wanted. With the track record of these writers though, I doubt it will come to this.
Very few of us have seen the film yet. But it seems unlikely that she'd become a member of Starfleet on the spot. Now if the next film is set four years later, then she could join as a newly fledged cadet.

These writers, Pegg and Jung, have never written Star Trek before. So there is no track record. No idea what the previous writers had in mind for Carol, Rand or Chapel. They didn't get the job.
The point was also that seemingly only one female character, Uhura, is allowed to appear in more than one movie. They didn't introduce more female characters right from the start, for example Chapel and Rand. They also kept Pike around for longer, old Spock was in two. Keenser is apparently also worth more keeping around than Carol. Even the security officer Hendorff has a place in ST09, STID and because a movie seemingly really can't work without him, he will also appear in Beyond. But finding a place for Carol on the ship, she just joined in STID? No, that would be too much estrogen. :rolleyes:
"Seemingly" is a pretty big word with a lot of room for supposition, assumption and guess work. Not always the best course.

Unfortunately, Chapel and Rand aren't seen as part of core group of characters. Would I have like them to play a larger part in these films? As a fan, of course I would. I would also have liked them to play bigger parts in the original fims. And as tragic as Anton's passing is, I hope they can possibly fill Chekov's spot with a female character. My choice would be Janice Rand, since she is an established character in the mythos. I'd also like to see Chapel on board as biologist. Rather than as a nurse or doctor.

Pike was kept to be killed. Is Hendorff in the new film? Thought he was killed in STID. Aren't there other female characters (abet in minor roles) that carried over from 09 to STID? And in addition to Jaylah, there is the Starfleet Commander role play by a woman. So there is some representation beyond the main cast.

As a whole Trek record of adding new characters to established ensembles is pretty weak
Decker and Ilia were basically killed off.
David was killed off.
Saavivk was shipped off to parts unknown.
Valaris was a bad guy.
Pulaski shipped off to parts unknown
The success stories seem to be Chekov and Guinan.
 
I understand not liking the established characters being changed, I really do. A big part of my dislike of the reboots come from changing the established characters and the setting too much for my liking (other people may like these changes, and good for them!)

But I just really cannot see this as a big change, it is barely a change at all. Sulu was never established being straight, and it certainly wans't in any way or form defining part of his character.
 
I understand not liking the established characters being changed, I really do. A big part of my dislike of the reboots come from changing the established characters and the setting too much for my liking...

Life is change. If we aren't going to update characters and settings to match society, then we consign them to the dustbin of history. The crew of the original Enterprise deserve better than that. They are modern American mythology. :techman:
 
Well the stepfather/uncle is a "bad guy". So I'd rather Winona wasn't placed in thast role. Though I would have liked to have seen Winona in additional scenes, but I would prefer them to be scenes that advanced Kirk's character.

It is not like she comes across positive in that deleted scene the way it is. She left her two sons alone with an abusive stepfather after all. That she even married that asshole makes me question her judgement and taste. Maybe they deleted that scene because of this or it was just for time reasons.

These writers, Pegg and Jung, have never written Star Trek before. So there is no track record.
We know already though, that these writers got rid of Carol for no good reason.

Pike was kept to be killed. Is Hendorff in the new film? Thought he was killed in STID. Aren't there other female characters (abet in minor roles) that carried over from 09 to STID?

At least Pike got some good scenes before he got offed. Better than just disappearing without a mention. Hendorff is in Beyond. And I think no female character outside of Uhura was in both ST09 and STID.
 
Didn't they kill Hendorff in the STiD novelisation?

I have no idea. I haven't read the comic. But Hendorff will be in Beyond.

http://sknr.net/2016/07/05/83583/

We Talk Star Trek Beyond With Actor Jason Matthew Smith

Recently we got the chance to speak with actor Jason Matthew Smith about his role in the upcoming Star Trek Beyond. Jason has appeared in all three of the new Star Trek films and talks about his time on the film as well as his upcoming appearance at San Diego Comic Con.

Kadett_Schnubbelchen.jpg


What can you tell us about your character in the film and what has changed about him since the previous films?

I play Lt. Hendorff, aka Cupake, a red shirt security officer on board the Enterprise. In the 2009 Star Trek reboot, I was a cadet in the Star Fleet Academy who has a run in with James Kirk that ended in a bar fight. Later, I arrested Kirk when he illegally beamed aboard the Enterprise with Scotty. I was present on the bridge when Kirk goaded Spock into a fight that lead to Kirk becoming Captain. In the next film in the series Into Darkness, I was recruited by Kirk to go on a secret mission to capture Kahn on the Klingon planet Kronos. In the upcoming film Beyond, Hendorff has risen to the rank of Lieutenant and is an integral member of the crew of the Enterprise which is currently 2 years in on a 5 year mission. With Hendorff’s new found promotion comes more responsibility. But as is the mission of all Red Shirts, duty, honor, and protection of the crew are my character’s primary priorities.
 
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It is not like she comes across positive in that deleted scene the way it is. She left her two sons alone with an abusive stepfather after all. That she even married that asshole makes me question her judgement and taste. Maybe they deleted that scene because of this or it was just for time reasons.
That's not fair to say, given there's so little known about the situation.

I used to think the guy was supposed to be their step-dad too, but I think he's officially their uncle. And all they said was "while your mom is off-world." I think it's more likely she was in the middle of a tour of duty than, say, off sipping Risan mojitos. I also think it's more likely that it was her family's home and Jim and Sam were actually under their grandparents' charge. The asshole uncle just lived there. But, again, since there's so little to go on, I can only pull this outta my ass.

Also, as I've elsewhere, grown up with the uncle is most likely where nuKirk got his love for motorcycles, so the relationship couldn't have been all bad.


We know already though, that these writers got rid of Carol for no good reason.
We don't know anything. There may have been logistical issues with Eve. Or, it's possible that studio wanted it to be like the show with a new girl every week. (Though, I hope not.)

I suspect that it's really more of a matter. the studio really liked the Nibirians and wanted one (or some kind of derivative) as the new female co-lead, but they didn't want the cast to get too bloated.
 
I like the idea of recurring redshirts like Hendorff, I just lament the fact that they excised Chapel and Rand and yet rather than replace them with women, they replaced them with Hendorff and Keenser, giving us 10 recurring male characters (including Pike and Spock) and only a single woman. It's pretty poor to have a worse ratio than the sixties show.
 
We know already though, that these writers got rid of Carol for no good reason.

Was there a good reason to keep her? I liked the character well enough. But, I didn't think she was integral going forward.
 
That's not fair to say, given there's so little known about the situation.

I used to think the guy was supposed to be their step-dad too, but I think he's officially their uncle. And all they said was "while your mom is off-world." I think it's more likely she was in the middle of a tour of duty than, say, off sipping Risan mojitos. I also think it's more likely that it was her family's home and Jim and Sam were actually under their grandparents' charge. The asshole uncle just lived there. But, again, since there's so little to go on, I can only pull this outta my ass.

Also, as I've elsewhere, grown up with the uncle is most likely where nuKirk got his love for motorcycles, so the relationship couldn't have been all bad.

The credits say stepdad. Either way it is a moot point in the end as they cut the scene.

We don't know anything. There may have been logistical issues with Eve. Or, it's possible that studio wanted it to be like the show with a new girl every week. (Though, I hope not.)

I suspect that it's really more of a matter. the studio really liked the Nibirians and wanted one (or some kind of derivative) as the new female co-lead, but they didn't want the cast to get too bloated.

Well, I don't know that. What was the reason?

It sounds like Alice Eve was on board for more.
http://www.bustle.com/articles/1066...nd-alice-eve-talks-returning-to-the-franchise

The only "explanation" I found for her exclusion so far is this from Lin:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/15/star-trek-beyond-will-politely-ignore-into-darkness
We pick the crew up about two and a half years after Into Darkness. There were many iterations where we did go and explore [Carol Marcus], but we figured it was two and a half years… It was something we talked about and worked on, but in the presentation of this film it didn’t quite fit in. It’s there with the transporter and everything [laughs].

I find this a lame excuse. For all the other characters two and a half years have also past and they obviously have no problems to write for them. I think they could have made her fit in the movie, if they really wanted.
 
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