Game Of Thrones Season 6 Discussion (Spoilers)

[JWPlatt]

...(granted Benioff and Weiss don't have [the books] to work from).

Discussions along these lines - not just here - always seem to forget they have Martin to work with.

 

[JWPlatt]

Because we all know [the facts of the story that] all the evidence clearly points to him.

Given all the evidence the show has revealed, can it really be said so unequivocally that:

Jon Snow is finally revealed to be son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark

?

I think all the people who read the books and are rejoicing and so moved by this apparent answer to their decades-long wait are premature. The books can still go in a different direction. Or in the direction they've predicted. The evidence is insufficient in either case to say it's a done deal. Even when the show is over in two seasons.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

The evidence is insufficient in either case to say it's a done deal.

Everything I cited was from the show, not the books. As I said, present any sort of plausible explanation for the various pieces of evidence and I'm sure people will happily entertain the idea that Jon's father is someone other than Rhaegar, if for no other reason than it's fun to speculate about the possibility of a plot twist. I just don't see how you can get past the evidence.

 

[DigificWriter]

Discussions along these lines - not just here - always seem to forget they have Martin to work with.

Not directly... at least not anymore.

The series still has Martin's implicit blessing and approval, but he's no longer in direct sustained contact with Benioff and Weiss due to the fact that he's focusing all of his energy on finishing the books.

The television series is essentially operating on its own terms now and telling a story that is DERIVED from the already-released novels and information gleaned from past conversations between Benioff/Weiss and Martin, but is largely unsupported by anything other than the narrative weight of what the show itself has already done.

 

[JWPlatt]

Here's an interesting character discussion with young Ned's actor, Robert Aramayo:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-young-ned-906884

 

[JWPlatt]

Not directly... at least not anymore.

While Martin did not write any scripts for season 6, "showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have been well-apprised by Martin himself regarding the specifics of plot points covered in The Winds of Winter."

 

[dahj]

The books can still go in a different direction.

On this point... no, they won't.

That was the question Martin asked D&D before agreeing to let them make the show.

 

[JWPlatt]

On this point... no, they won't.

That was the question Martin asked D&D before agreeing to let them make the show.

It's difficult to get your context here. Martin has said that he won't change his own direction in the books based upon any fan reactions to the show or because of the show itself. Maybe that's what you mean, and I agree. Martin will write what he has intended all along, regardless of those things.

But what Martin has intended can be quite different than the show, and that's the sort of "different direction" I mean. As DigificWriter has pointed out, "The series still has Martin's implicit blessing and approval" to do whatever they think is best. And that can certainly mean a different direction than the books. I've watched video interviews where Martin has said that's okay with him.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

While Martin did not write any scripts for season 6, "showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have been well-apprised by Martin himself regarding the specifics of plot points covered in The Winds of Winter."

But not for A Dream of Spring. At best, they'll have a broad idea of how the book will go (including the ending), but that's it. Hell, Martin himself probably only has a detailed outline.

 

[DigificWriter]

While Martin did not write any scripts for season 6, "showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have been well-apprised by Martin himself regarding the specifics of plot points covered in The Winds of Winter."

Source for what's in quotation marks in that statement, please.

 

[dahj]

It's difficult to get your context here.

I was referring to the meeting way back in 2006 between Benioff & Weiss and GRRM where they pitched him making A Song of Ice and Fire as a TV show.

That meeting lasted 5+ hours and at the end of it Martin asked them "Who is Jon Snow's mother?"
Their answer was the correct one and that's what won Martin over.

So, no. The books and the TV show are not going to diverge in regards to Jon Snow's parentage.

 

[JWPlatt]

Source for what's in quotation marks in that statement, please.

http://www.cinemablend.com/televisi...oil-Ending-George-R-R-Martin-Books-70847.html

Also, I'm reminded by the article that dodge is more likely correct in the assertion that Jon Snow's parentage (whatever it is - they didn't reveal their guess) won't diverge. I do now remember the story about Martin and the pitch with Lyanna. Also, the article quotes Benioff:

Luckily, we’ve been talking about this with George [R.R. Martin] for a long time... and we know where things are heading. So, we’ll eventually meet up at pretty much the same place where George is going. There might be a few deviations along the route, but we’re heading towards the same destination.

He admits deviations and he doesn't define "destination," so I'm not going to take it literally.

 

[JWPlatt]

Just found an interesting David Benioff quote in a Deadline interview with the writing partners.
http://deadline.com/2016/06/game-of-thrones-season-6-finale-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-hbo-1201780242/

As we get close to the ending, we’ve been talking about that for so long, things come into better focus. Once we get to the final end game, we’ve got very specific ideas that have grown organically over the past six plus years about where everything will end up.

If they already knew that the show would "eventually meet up at pretty much the same place where George is going," from the quote in my previous post, how "organic" can it be without divergence?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Here's what The Mountain looks like with the brightness and contrast adjusted:

Spoiler

It was cool that the hanging astrolabe in The Citadel library was the same as the one in the opening credits:

Spoiler

And going back one episode to Rickon's death, King Robert's curse has finally run its course now that everyone he touched in this scene is dead:

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http://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/...hink-robert-baratheon-cursed-the-stark-family

 

[Ethros]

Did he touch Hodor too?

(and Maester Luwin, Jory Cassel and that other guy with the funky beard)

 

[Venardhi]

But not for A Dream of Spring. At best, they'll have a broad idea of how the book will go (including the ending), but that's it. Hell, Martin himself probably only has a detailed outline.

Martin doesn't have outlines. He mentioned in an interview years ago (around the time Robert Jordan died) that should the worst befall him there is no way anyone else could finish the series in his stead because there isn't anything like that for them to work from. He just writes in scattershot and then redrafts over and over until everything fits together right.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Did he touch Hodor too?

(and Maester Luwin, Jory Cassel and that other guy with the funky beard)

It only counts for the Starks.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

^ Seriously? No wonder it takes him so long, then. I thought that most authors with book series and deep mythologies/detailed worlds always end up with both a massive bible of stuff and outlines that just grow organically because you can't keep track of everything otherwise. They write, can't fit everything in or the editor takes it out, and they keep it for later, etc.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

My prediction is that he will never finish the books himself. The time interval between publication of each instalment seems to be growing exponentially.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/9/58...ays-fuck-you-to-people-questioning-his-health

Valar morghulis

 

[Skywalker]

Maybe he'll surprise us all and announce that's he's completed both The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring!