What is THE Worst continuity error in Trek history..?!

[Richard Baker]

Nomad and Tan Ru Might have detected each other and wanted to learn more, a systems failure could have caused the collision during approach.

IIRC the first recorded traffic accident in North America occurred in Pennsylvania- there were only two cars in the state at the time. The owners had heard about each other and arranged a meeting. as they drove towards each other, honking and waving to each other and they forgot to slow down and stop.

 

[UnknownSample]

It never actually states they only have sex once every seven years, merely that there is a necessity to do it then. Doubtless the rest of the tie they dabble

Absolutely not. Vulcans repress and control strong feelings and urges. Sexual urges can be the strongest and most disruptive, a prime area for them to concentrate on with their disciplines.
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There was a point to the idea of Pon Farr. It wasn't some random plot element dropped in for no reason. The point of it was to explore how the race can continue, what with these rigorous disciplines against all urges and feelings.
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Expect the makers of ST to have a thoughtful purpose behind what they do. Theodore Sturgeon was a novelist with depth to his work. (My 2nd favorite novel ever, his "More Than Human".)
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It's not that they "can't". It's that they don't. But they "don't" so much, that it's become part of their biology, so there's a bit of "can't". This biological imperative has been squelched by a combination of discipline, culture, and biology. Biological imperatives have a way of confounding all controls in the end, though, so somehow Pon Farr arose as a safety valve, allowing the race to continue.
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(Remember, Spock explained to Kirk that it was about reproduction, and if they were doing it apart from Pon Farr, reproduction would not be an issue. That would be covered, all that sex would mean that wasn't any problem. Pon Farr ensures reproduction, which would not be under threat for the species if routine sex were going on.)
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We were really meant to get it , in no uncertain terms, when seeing and hearing Mr. Spock, that such a guy does not have sex. Just hearing about Vulcan disciplines should drive that home, but it's a thing you have to stop and think about. The Vulcan disciplines were not about just not telling jokes or laughing, or tearing up at a sad movie. They're about the heavyweight urges, the ones that disrupt lives, trigger violence, and supply the sublimated energy for all sorts of insane causes.
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So sex doesn't have to lead to all that? Argue with the Vulcans, it's not my ideology... though I can very much see their side on this. Historically sex is great big powder keg.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Yeah, Nomad probably didn't erase Uhura's memory, just put some sort of mental block in her that made her forget. All the crew did was remove that block, maybe by reawakening a memory which caused all the rest of it to flood back.

The problem *I* had with that episode is the fact that Nomad and Tan Ru actually collided in space. That seems VERY unlikely, given how vast space is.

It's also weird that it's apparently possible for Uhura to relearn everything she needed to know to resume her duties within in the space of a couple weeks. If that's the case, why do people spend years going to Starfleet Academy?

Honestly, the whole "erasing an officer's memory" bit would've played a lot better if it had been some extra of the week instead of one of the regulars that they had to restore to normal.

 

[Spot261]

Which is exactly the way fans have been reading it ever since. Nonetheless it is never actually stated on screen and is therefore not canon. All we know is there exists a seven year imperative, any intervening abstinence is thus far never anything other than strongly implied.

A golden rule in trek is that only what is explicitly seen and stated on screen is canon. Licensed novels or games, earlier drafts of scripts and crucially the much debated "writer's intent" are not, no matter how much they fit with the show in detail or spirit. Certain things seem easy to take as a given and we'd often be silly to interpret things any other way, but there is a fine line between canon and fan theories and this seems to be almost a classic example of something a hair's breadth away.

I entirely agree that it SEEMS likely Vulcans refrain for seven years and it definitely fits with the concept of pon farr. Certainly I'd be happier with the ST universe working that way, impractical as it sounds, but as it has never been confirmed on screen it remains plausible speculation, regardless of Mr Sturgeon's intent.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Some things are just obvious and don't need to be confirmed onscreen, because things literally could not exist any other way.

The thing about pon farr might not qualify as such, but Ocampa females being able to have multiple births (i.e. twins, triplets, etc.) and not just one child, sure does. Without that, the species would die out.

Although there are, I agree, some fan theories that are very fanciful and for which there isn't much evidence. Such as my own personal theory that Jack, the teenage kid from ENT's "Carbon Creek", is Jackson Roykirk, who will one day invent Nomad.

 

[Shat Happens]

The unexplained transmorphing of Saavik from looking like Kirstie Alley to Robin Curtis to Kim Catrall.

 

[Marsden]

So, what I've gotten from this thread is that Noman and Tan Ru only have sex every seven years.

Good to know.

 

[Spot261]

So, what I've gotten from this thread is that Noman and Tan Ru only have sex every seven years.

Good to know.

strangely the same applies to me, but I'm not a vulcan....

 

[Orac]

You lucky bastard!

 

[T'Arwen]

Absolutely not. Vulcans repress and control strong feelings and urges. Sexual urges can be the strongest and most disruptive, a prime area for them to concentrate on with their disciplines.
--------------------------
There was a point to the idea of Pon Farr. It wasn't some random plot element dropped in for no reason. The point of it was to explore how the race can continue, what with these rigorous disciplines against all urges and feelings.
----------------------------
Expect the makers of ST to have a thoughtful purpose behind what they do. Theodore Sturgeon was a novelist with depth to his work. (My 2nd favorite novel ever, his "More Than Human".)
---------------------------------
It's not that they "can't". It's that they don't. But they "don't" so much, that it's become part of their biology, so there's a bit of "can't". This biological imperative has been squelched by a combination of discipline, culture, and biology. Biological imperatives have a way of confounding all controls in the end, though, so somehow Pon Farr arose as a safety valve, allowing the race to continue.
--------------------
(Remember, Spock explained to Kirk that it was about reproduction, and if they were doing it apart from Pon Farr, reproduction would not be an issue. That would be covered, all that sex would mean that wasn't any problem. Pon Farr ensures reproduction, which would not be under threat for the species if routine sex were going on.)
------------------------------
We were really meant to get it , in no uncertain terms, when seeing and hearing Mr. Spock, that such a guy does not have sex. Just hearing about Vulcan disciplines should drive that home, but it's a thing you have to stop and think about. The Vulcan disciplines were not about just not telling jokes or laughing, or tearing up at a sad movie. They're about the heavyweight urges, the ones that disrupt lives, trigger violence, and supply the sublimated energy for all sorts of insane causes.
--------------------------------------
So sex doesn't have to lead to all that? Argue with the Vulcans, it's not my ideology... though I can very much see their side on this. Historically sex is great big powder keg.

Tell that to the writer of Amok Time herself.

Vulcans mate normally any time they want to. However, every seven years you do the ritual, the ceremony, the whole thing. The biological urge. You must, but any other time is any other emotion—humanoid emotion—when you're in love. When you want to, you know when the urge is there, you do it. This every-seven-years business was taken too literally by too many people who don't stop and understand. We didn't mean it only every seven years. I mean, every seven years would be a little bad, and it would not explain the Vulcans of many different ages which are not seven years apart.

I completely agree with her although I would guess Vulcans don't have sex as often as humans. It's not just emotional suppression but the fact that as telepaths, they have other ways of being intimate.

 

[matthunter]

Tell that to the writer of Amok Time herself.


I completely agree with her although I would guess Vulcans don't have sex as often as humans. It's not just emotional suppression but the fact that as telepaths, they have other ways of being intimate.

Indeed, and it's telling that - presumably - Romulans do not undergo Pon Farr since they don't repress their emotions. Likewise, it would be interesting to see if Romulans are subject to Bendii Syndrome (the Last Unicorn Games Trek RPGs suggested not)

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Tell that to the writer of Amok Time herself.

"Amok Time" was written by Theodore Sturgeon, not D.C. Fontana.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708416/

 

[The Wormhole]

Indeed, and it's telling that - presumably - Romulans do not undergo Pon Farr since they don't repress their emotions.

It is entirely possible Romulans do experience ponn farr, it just isn't noticeable due to the cultural differences. For example, what makes ponn farr so noticeable in Vulcans is that they are suddenly expressing emotions, and they organize a convoluted ceremony to take care of it. With normally emotive Romulans, the only real tell one would have of experiencing ponn farr is that they are having a bad day and seem extra irritable compared to normal. They take care of this by hitting the town that night and scoring some tail. Romulans don't notice or study the issue because it isn't as disruptive to their lifestyle as it is to a Vulcan's.

 

[velour]

"Amok Time" was written by Theodore Sturgeon, not D.C. Fontana.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708416/

How exactly did Spock satisfy his ponn farr urges in "Amok Time"?

When Spock was on Vulcan, he didn't do any of that finger fucking stuff with his wife, or with anybody else for that matter. I don't remember Spock having had any physical contact with his wife. All he did was have that death match with Kirk. Yet by the end of the episode, Spock was back to normal.

But in ST3, the resurrected Spock needed to do that finger touching thing with Saavik in order to sate his ponn farr urges.

 

[Anwar]

Probably his half human nature meant it didn't have as much of an effect on him and it could be shrugged off.

Of course, if this is supposed to happen every 7 years I wonder why there were no records of this from Spock's earlier assignments or from the other Vulcans who served in Starfleet.

 

[FormerLurker]

The way Spock describes it in the episode, one gets the idea this is the first time it has happened.

 

[The Wormhole]

How exactly did Spock satisfy his ponn farr urges in "Amok Time"?

When Spock was on Vulcan, he didn't do any of that finger fucking stuff with his wife, or with anybody else for that matter. I don't remember Spock having had any physical contact with his wife. All he did was have that death match with Kirk. Yet by the end of the episode, Spock was back to normal.

But in ST3, the resurrected Spock needed to do that finger touching thing with Saavik in order to sate his ponn farr urges.

Ritual combat also works to rid one of the ponn farr urges. Also the implication in Trek III is that Spock and Saavik did indeed go "all the way."

 

[Anwar]

But it couldn't have been the first time this ever happened to any other Vulcan in Starfleet. If the two species had co-existed long enough that they had multiple Vulcans in Starfleet and Humans who interned on Vulcan and they interbred, statistically this can't have not happened before without being documented.

And, as logical beings, the Vulcans would understand that it be important that non-Vulcans know about this so they could help afflicted Vulcans who needed help returning to Vulcan.

And Search for Spock showed it happening to Spock when he had progressed to his teen years.

I get the feeling that the real reason the Vulcans tried to keep their history to themselves so much is because it would make them look like Galactic Hypocrites in how they criticize others for being emotional and primitive...when the Ancient Vulcans were more emotional and violent than Humanity ever was.

 

[The Wormhole]

Perhaps the other Vulcans serving in Starfleet did a better job keeping track of their ponn farr "cycles" and were able to arrange for leave time before they began flying off the handle. Spock believed he would be spared because of his human side, and so didn't take the precaution.

 

[UnknownSample]

Tell that to the writer of Amok Time herself.


I completely agree with her although I would guess Vulcans don't have sex as often as humans. It's not just emotional suppression but the fact that as telepaths, they have other ways of being intimate.

I already suspected DCF wasn't really together with the rest of t h e makers of Trek on this. I'd heard she'd meant the Romulan Commander and Spock to be falling in love for real. Then I heard the opposite though, that it was people besides her pushing for that change to her script. And if she's announcing Vulcans just simply fall in love just like other peoples, then she's never paid attention to This Side of Paradise and many other episodes. In fact , she's missing the point of what Vulcans are.

Unless you know some behind-the-scenes thing that I don't, Theodore Sturgeon wrote Amok Time, not DC Fontana. And if she's right, pon farr has no meaning except as an excuse for a few action scenes. It becomes a bad episode.