DC Comics: Rebirth

[TemporalFlux]

yeah, they just tried a JSA type book with no connection to WW II. i'd like to see a return to the JSA being comprised of a few old timers and legacy heroes.

The CW Flash series had a good idea, in my opinion. If the JSA is from a parallel earth, why does history have to be the same? The JSA earth may have had a war like World War II in the recent past; they could even use Per Degaton as a Hitler replacement.

 

[Saga]

The CW Flash series had a good idea, in my opinion. If the JSA is from a parallel earth, why does history have to be the same? The JSA earth may have had a war like World War II in the recent past; they could even use Per Degaton as a Hitler replacement.

that would work. i just think it is a mistake to completely divorce the JSA from WW II.

 

[The Lensman]

that would work. i just think it is a mistake to completely divorce the JSA from WW II.

Why? They never actively fought in the war and the ONLY reason people still associate them with WW2 is because "All Star Squadron" a comic which was published during the 1980's. Before that comic, the JSA was just seen as the original heroes from Earth-Two. There were no really big callbacks to the WW2 era in the JSA tales of the 60's or 70's that I can recall. The JSA was just presented as about 10 years older than the JLA members.

As I've said before, we don't associate any other team by their original publication date or era, like the Fantastic Four or the Justice League, so I'm not sure why people are so intent on keeping them tied to WW2 due to a comic published in the 80's. Hell, Marvel's "Invaders" were created in the 1970's, not the 1940's. There was an "All-Winners Squad" in the 40's though. The Invaders and the All Star Squadron were both written by Roy Thomas, who clearly had a thing for the 40's.

The New 52 book "Earth-2" went off the rails on it's own, not because it divorced characters from WW2. They had the right idea losing the geriatric heroes angle and putting the original heroes back in their prime. I'd rather that they had stuck closer to their original outfits (sorry artists who hate drawing Jay's classic helmet, learn how to draw it right), but I'd rather see these heroes back in their prime, maybe a few years older than their JLA counterparts, even if they're retired.

 

[kirk55555]

Why? They never actively fought in the war and the ONLY reason people still associate them with WW2 is because "All Star Squadron" a comic which was published during the 1980's. Before that comic, the JSA was just seen as the original heroes from Earth-Two. There were no really big callbacks to the WW2 era in the JSA tales of the 60's or 70's that I can recall. The JSA was just presented as about 10 years older than the JLA members.

The 70s All Star Comics run definitely established the JSA as WW2 heroes. There was a comic telling their ww2 era origin published during the 70s All Star Comics run. They weren't just older then the JLA, they were a group explicitly formed in WW2. It wasn't a focus of the run at all, but it was a part of it.That was all before Roy Thomas worked at DC(or his awesome All Star Squadron book, which I'll totally admit I love).

 

[Saga]

if you remove the WW II aspect what do you have? just another super hero team. i love Golden Age and Pulp heroes so i'm all for keeping them anchored to the 30s-40s or having someone else take up the mantle.

 

[Nerys Myk]

if you remove the WW II aspect what do you have? just another super hero team. i love Golden Age and Pulp heroes so i'm all for keeping them anchored to the 30s-40s or having someone else take up the mantle.

You have what they've been for 50 years, an older team of heroes who have inspired and influenced the current generation. They don't have to be anchored to WWII to be that.

 

[Xerxes82]

There is potential here, though I think "rebirth" is a pretty poor choice of branding.

I'm curious why you feel that way re:branding? They've used the "Rebirth" name before, with similar stated goals, though obviously in a more limited scope with both Green Lantern and Flash in the past. How successful was Flash Rebirth? No clue, I didn't read it. But Green Lantern Rebirth was quite well received at the time, and launched Johns and that franchise to some pretty solid success.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I just saw a spoiler for the fate of New 52 Superman, and Superdad. I can't believe this is how they're going to end things for him.

Canon is flexible and continuity doesn't matter. Sad thing is, now Superman is in the exact same place he was in back in 2011. *Sigh* It's tough being a Superman fan. Oh well.

 

[kirk55555]

Well, Superman in 2011 (pre-reboot) was doing pretty well. I mean, outside of the horrible JMS story (that JMS didn't even finish), but ignoring that he was doing fine when it came to the character and his status quo.

 

[Saga]

Well, Superman in 2011 (pre-reboot) was doing pretty well. I mean, outside of the horrible JMS story (that JMS didn't even finish), but ignoring that he was doing fine when it came to the character and his status quo.

agreed.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Well, Superman in 2011 (pre-reboot) was doing pretty well. I mean, outside of the horrible JMS story (that JMS didn't even finish), but ignoring that he was doing fine when it came to the character and his status quo.

Ah Grounded. That still pisses me off. JMS did 7 years on The Amazing Spider-Man but only did 4 issues on Superman before jumping ship. I read that Chris Roberson (the writer who penned the rest of Grounded) was left with a one page outline (according to Roberson, calling it an outline would be generous) of what JMS' plans were for that arc.

Before Grounded, we had the New Krypton Arc. Another let down. I was so excited for this at the time, but James Robinson couldn't make it interesting and DC hit the status quo hard when the sales started to slip. A lot like what they're doing now with Superman Savage Dawn and Truth.

I feel bad for anyone who followed New 52 Supes since 2011. I only bought the first 3 trades of Action comics Superman by Grant Morrison. I wonder how they're going to square the Superman on Justice League and Superdad. Since nothing from Truth or Savage Dawn has affected him so far.

 

[The Lensman]

The 70s All Star Comics run definitely established the JSA as WW2 heroes. There was a comic telling their ww2 era origin published during the 70s All Star Comics run. They weren't just older then the JLA, they were a group explicitly formed in WW2. It wasn't a focus of the run at all, but it was a part of it.That was all before Roy Thomas worked at DC(or his awesome All Star Squadron book, which I'll totally admit I love).

I never said they weren't established as WW2 heroes, I'm saying not much was made of it and comic readers didn't associate them with WW2 in the way that fans do now. Now fans act like the JSA can't exist without being in WW2 which is nonsense. It was established that Ben and Reed fought either in WW2 or in Korea, but no one is suggesting that's the case now. No one is suggesting that the JLA forever be tied to their 60's roots, or that the FF be constantly tied to their 60's roots. It makes no sense for fans to demand that of the JSA.

WW2 is getting further and further into the past. It ended a mere 15 or so years before the JLA appearred, making the JSA'ers about 35 to 40 to the JLA'ers 20 to 25 years of age. Now the JLA'ers are still 20 to 25 while the JSA'ers would be pushing 90-95. Time to lose WW2 and keep them about 15 years or so ahead of the JLAers. That allows them to be at an age where some have retired, passing on the legacy. It also spares us from the ridiculousness of geriatric heroes, as well as sparing the writers from having to come up with more convoluted reasons for those who don't have magic rings or the Speed Force that have been rejuvinated or explaining why they haven't died.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

The bitter end for New 52 Superman. Once again discontinuity between the various DC titles.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/05...tice-league-and-dc-universe-rebirth-spoilers/

I've lost track at how many New 52 titles have literally ignored what happens on other books, for the sake of their own story.

Every major arc on Johns' Justice League title.
Superman: Savage Dawn and Truth
Doomed
Batman Super Heavy
Batman Endgame
Green Lantern Godhead
GL Renegade
Future's End
The Finches Wonder Woman
Azzerello's Wonder Woman not tying into JL or the SM/WW titles.
Convergence
Whatever is happening over on Flash, idk.
Earth 2, Future's End, World's End, Society

 

[Xerxes82]

I'm actually kind of curious about the new Rebirth line. I read maybe one or two DC titles before the New 52, tried a larger handful of titles out of the relaunch, and had dropped every single one of them by issue 13. I got back in when Gail Simone's Secret Six relaunched. And I've been checking out Grayson in trade, and enjoying that as well.

But as curious as I am, I'm keeping away. DC has struggled to connect with me as a reader, and I just don't want to waste time and money giving them more opportunities. I'll check out the new Nightwing book, if I hear good things down the road. And I'll definitely keep my ears to the ground, and see how the new direction is received. But my entertainment dollars are hard won, and DC hasn't exactly inspired faith in their line in the last decade or so.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The bitter end for New 52 Superman. Once again discontinuity between the various DC titles.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/05...tice-league-and-dc-universe-rebirth-spoilers/

I've lost track at how many New 52 titles have literally ignored what happens on other books, for the sake of their own story.

Every major arc on Johns' Justice League title.
Superman: Savage Dawn and Truth
Doomed
Batman Super Heavy
Batman Endgame
Green Lantern Godhead
GL Renegade
Future's End
The Finches Wonder Woman
Azzerello's Wonder Woman not tying into JL or the SM/WW titles.
Convergence
Whatever is happening over on Flash, idk.
Earth 2, Future's End, World's End, Society

I see no reason they have to sync up with or mention every plot in every other title. With the Big Seven approach to the JLA you'd wind up losing the entire team if you had to reflect what was going on in the Batman books, the Superman books, Wonder Woman, the GL books, Flash and Aquaman. I just go with the idea that they happen before, after and in between other arcs. Let each book tell their own story.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I see no reason they have to sync up with or mention every plot in every other title. With the Big Seven approach to the JLA you'd wind up losing the entire team if you had to reflect what was going on in the Batman books, the Superman books, Wonder Woman, the GL books, Flash and Aquaman. I just go with the idea that they happen before, after and in between other arcs. Let each book tell their own story.

It's not so much that I want all arcs to sync up. It's that there is a clear lack of snygery between the editors and writers of respective characters and when things become inconvenient, a writer is willing to toss out and or ignore what was established elsewhere.

You look at the current JL story with the New Gods. In the story, this is the first time the New Gods of New Genesis have said to interacted with the JL and the heroes from Earth. Except the New Gods made appearances on Wonder Woman (Azzerello), Green Lantern (Godhead), and Earth 2 (Robinson + Taylor). Also the current arcs on Batman and Superman. Super Heavy with Comissioner Gordon in the robobat suit and Superman Truth (identity exposed by Lois, Superman losing his powers, shaved head and t-shirt costume). Bruce Wayne has been cured of his trauma via Lazarus Pit, and Gordon took over for him. On JL though, neither of those things have happened to Clark and Bruce. Word from DC is, Super Heavy and Truth occurred after the current JL arc. Despite them all being published at the same time.

Then you have something like Future's End which was supposed to reflect on Earth Prime, Earth 2 and the Batman Beyond (in the future), but has been completely ignored by all offices. The arc didn't pan out for DC like they thought it would. Despite nearly a year's worth of stories published about it. The same way Convergence and Secret Wars took up a lot of time and put solo tites stories on hold for the event.

Speaking for myself, the only title I managed to follow from 2011-2016 was Justice League. Because it was the most consistent. With as many cancelled titles, abandoned story lines and just mediocre stories the New 52 has had, I just wish there was more to show for it. My investment that is.

I think DC and Marvel are just living for the yearly events. That way they can advertise their entire line with crossovers and tin-ins. Unless you carry a Bat or Spider on your chest, your solo book likely won't get the support it needs from TPTB.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I have absolutely nothing positive to say about Action Comics #52, except that this misbegotten storyline is now done.

The final six pages of Superman: Lois and Clark #8 are what I want out of Superman comics. That's not too much to ask for, is it?

Spoiler: Rebirth Special

I wasn't expecting Wally's heartfelt plea to Barry to remember him and, when he didn't, all the things he said about how Barry made him into the man that he had been to affect me as much as it did.

 

[TheSeeker]

Just finished reading Rebirth. Wow. Can't wait to see where this goes.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Just finished reading Rebirth. Wow. Can't wait to see where this goes.

Spoiler: Rebirth

For people wondering how the Comedian's blood-splattered badge ended up in the Batcave, I thought it was obvious -- Wally dragged it into the DC Universe with him when he broke through into the Batcave.

I'm really curious to see how this macro-plot plays out.

 

[TheSeeker]

Did I read that this is a multi-year plan?