What happened to Jennifer Lien?

[stardream]

One of the reviewers (can't remember which one, maybe Sci-fi Debris or the guy at Star Trek Voyager Ruminations) went down the list of why they couldn't get rid of certain characters. From what I remember, it went something like this...

Janeway-Can't get rid of her, star of the show.
Chakotay-Can't kill off the only Indian.
Doctor-Too much of a novelty character. He was at that point the 'reflecting humanity character.
Tuvox-HAD to have a Vulcan.
Tom Paris-they had a character arc in mind for him which eventually played out, just not as strong as that of the Doctor and Seven
B'Elanna-they also had a character arc in mind for her. Like Paris, it took a bit of a different turn than originally intended when they put her and Paris together. Also, like the Vulcan they had to have a Klingon. They wanted a variety of the Alpha Quadrant species represented and those were the two most well known. They made her half and half in order to give her some conflict and growth.

That left Neelix, Kes, and Kim.

Neelix was played by a more well-known actor. That left Kim and Kes. The young naive green ensign and the young innocent alien. It is assumed the writers had character arcs in mind for them as well. Kim growing more confident and taking on more leadership skills and Kes growing up and growing old on Voyager and dying as they reached earth. Why all this was abandoned we don't know but I suppose the idea of Ke's story was easier for them to write than that of Kim's or maybe they just didn't like Wang or his acting style. Then the People magazine thing happened (rather conveniently I might add. I'm not into conspiracies but I do wonder about Wang's publicist)

Anyway...this was just his opinion.

 

[hux]

The main thing in Kim's favour was his bromance with Tom. I enjoyed it a lot when those two hung out together.

If you'd come to me at the end of season three and told me to choose someone to axe... It would always be between Kes and Neelix. I'd probably have gone with Neelix but I honestly didn't miss Kes all that much.

 

[Romdoll]

No, it didn't make any sense at all.

Her lifespan could have been prolonged without any problem. According to the events in "Cold Fire" it was possible.

And, as pointed out in Finn's post above, the Borg children didn't show up until much later and they didn't last long on the ship.

I doubt we will ever know the entire story regarding Kes departure. Personally, I would have liked to see Kes remain on Voyager and perhaps if she had remained, Neelix would have persuaded more of his people to join Voyager's return to the Alapha Quadrant.

It would have been great to see more interaction among all the Characters and less Seven and the EMH Doctor, I like both actors don't get me wrong, I just feel that Voyager writer's wasted a lot of great opportunities to expand all the characters.

 

[Lynx]

I doubt we will ever know the entire story regarding Kes departure. Personally, I would have liked to see Kes remain on Voyager and perhaps if she had remained, Neelix would have persuaded more of his people to join Voyager's return to the Alapha Quadrant.

It would have been great to see more interaction among all the Characters and less Seven and the EMH Doctor, I like both actors don't get me wrong, I just feel that Voyager writer's wasted a lot of great opportunities to expand all the characters.

They sure did!

Which is a tragedy. In my opinion, they had the best characters and the best premise for a show and they couldn't handle it.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

That left Kim and Kes. The young naive green ensign and the young innocent alien. It is assumed the writers had character arcs in mind for them as well

So what happened to the Harry Kim story arc? Or did I miss something?

 

[HIjol]

Regarding Miss Jennifer;
There but for the Grace of the Nacene, my Friends...There but for the Grace of the Nacene...

 

[Nebusj]

So what happened to the Harry Kim story arc? Or did I miss something?

Well, they were going to a bit where they promoted him to Ensign, and then after some time spent exploring the changes in expectations the new rank gave him, they'd promote him to Ensign to deal with some emergency. Then, just as he was getting used to that, he'd be promoted to Ensign, as a seasoned figure. Finally he'd be promoted to Ensign so that he could show the new ensigns the ropes.

 

[HIjol]

So, Chief Ensign, then...

 

[stardream]

So what happened to the Harry Kim story arc? Or did I miss something?

You didn't miss anything. They just lost interest in pursuing it for one reason or another. Some say it was because they didn't like Garret Wang (apparently he had a habit of showing up late and hung over) or they didn't think he was a good enough actor. We saw bits and pieces of his arc in the Chute, The Killing Game, Timeless, and Nightengale (I'd put Workforce in there too) but apart from that he was wall paper.

 

[LonelyGirl]

When I look at her picture, all I see is a beautiful person in a lot of pain.
I was certain if I came here, there would be some massive show of support to donate to. Instead I found cruelty and apathy.
A good rule of thumb on the internet is to not post anything you wouldn't want the person or their family/friends to read. Things have a way of getting back to people, unfortunately.
Perhaps you have no idea what that kind of intractable emotional pain can drive you to. How it can influence your behavior and make you say and do things you never intended or even wanted. Then comes the guilt. And the self-imposed isolation shortly thereafter. Which makes all of it a never ending cycle of despair.
Now add to that the fact of having once been in the public eye. When it all hits the fan it's not only your family, friends and neighborhood that finds out but also random strangers talking about you. Having your mugshot posted all over the news and people saying you're ugly, a nightmare, a freak.
According to her little bio on wiki all she ever wanted to do was help others and make people feel good with her talent. Such people sometimes don't withstand the harshness of life very well and are easily taken advantage of.
It's costs nothing to be either kind or quiet.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What is all this crap, this should have been done for her, that should have been done, institutions, failed family..

How the heck would any of us know anything about Lien's medical care.

 

[Lynx]

What is all this crap, this should have been done for her, that should have been done, institutions, failed family..

How the heck would any of us know anything about Lien's medical care.

We don't!

But some of us do have something called compassion.

It's a rare thing in these days, isn't it?

 

[stardream]

Who was cruel and apathetic?

 

[Six of Twelve]

I saw Kes' character evolving near the end into something similar to Deanna Troi, in that she was able to sense things, much as Troi did. If they'd kept her, she could have ended up as ship's counselor as one of her duties. Like Neelix, she seemed to have the ability to fill in for several types of duties, as needed, mostly ones the regular crew really didn't have time for.

But, unlike Janeway, Torres, and Seven of Nine, her personality was much milder and didn't really stand out, though that was no fault of the actress.

But she was more interesting and had more potential than the bland, stuck in a rut Kim. I'd not have missed him at all.

As to Lien's mental health issues, I'm going to guess she probably has a type of Bipolar Disorder, possibly co-morbid with another mental illness. This is treatable where a person can live a normal or mostly normal life, but a common pitfall with those who have this disorder is that when treatments work and they feel better, they believe they don't need treatment any longer and discontinue treatment, which produces predictable results. They slide back into their illness, which turns into a cycle of active illness and re-treatment, over and over. Plus, many will try to self-medicate with drugs and/or alcohol, as it seems to provide the illusion of relief, but in the end, just gives them another problem in addition to the one they already had.

It's a very sad thing and I wish Ms Lien much luck in breaking this cycle and that she'll get the emotional support of those who care about her that will be crucial in breaking this cycle.

 

[Terok Nor]

Once they realised they made a mistake axing Kes why didn't they get rid of someone else (Kim, Chakotay, Neelix) and bring her back? I would have liked to see Kes live out her entire life on the show. Personally I thought the character was a lot more interesting than pretty much everyone else apart from Janeway, Seven and sometimes The Doctor and Tuvok.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

Once they realised they made a mistake axing Kes why didn't they get rid of someone else (Kim, Chakotay, Neelix) and bring her back? I would have liked to see Kes live out her entire life on the show. Personally I thought the character was a lot more interesting than pretty much everyone else apart from Janeway, Seven and sometimes The Doctor and Tuvok.

Did any of the producers ever mention that they'd made a mistake? I don't recall hearing about this. I might have missed something, of course ...

 

[Terok Nor]

Did any of the producers ever mention that they'd made a mistake? I don't recall hearing about this. I might have missed something, of course ...

I'm mentioning they made a mistake

But no, not that I know of. I do remember someone saying they regretted dropping Kes but I don't know who it was or in what context. Lynx might know.

 

[Lynx]

Soory, I can't remember seein anything about them admitting that they made a mistake. In that case it might have been Piller or Biller. I think that one of them was very positive to the character

Berman, Braga and Jeri Taylor did always seem to think that dumping Kes and adding Seven was the greatest achievment in broadcasting ever since the first TV was constructed. During most of the seasons 4 5 and 6 they did try to pretend that the character never existed. Then all of thew sudden they brought back the character to humiliate, destroy and finally kill off the character as a finger to those who wanted the character back.

 

[Clym]

Soory, I can't remember seein anything about them admitting that they made a mistake. In that case it might have been Piller or Biller. I think that one of them was very positive to the character

Berman, Braga and Jeri Taylor did always seem to think that dumping Kes and adding Seven was the greatest achievment in broadcasting ever since the first TV was constructed. During most of the seasons 4 5 and 6 they did try to pretend that the character never existed. Then all of thew sudden they brought back the character to humiliate, destroy and finally kill off the character as a finger to those who wanted the character back.

even you have to admit that 7/9 was a great character and far more interesting than Kes, and Ryan is an excellent actress. It was certainly the shot in the arm that Voy needed after the incredibly lacklustre first three seasons. Almost all of the best Voy episodes involved 7 and/or the Doctor in some way.

the reasons for introducing the 7 character may have been cynical but the result was definitely positive.

I don't think any of TPTB ever felt axing Kes was a mistake, and in their defence they were generous enough to bring Lien back for the excellent Fury - a really underrated episode IMO, and good closure for the character

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

even you have to admit that 7/9 was a great character and far more interesting than Kes,

He will never admit that

Of course it's just an opinion, though it is one I share. VASTLY more interesting.