Did JJ ruin Kirk?
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Most of them were his superficial charm but we had a fair few moments with Rand and Edith that mimic this scene without the underwear where Kirk's reaction displays something more. Then there is the Dolman. The whole Rayna affair looks off by comparison as the relationship appears more akin to an intense teenage crush.
I agree. The whole idea of Kirk's growth was that his interests and life were shallow pursuits, at best. He was only interested in himself, and his wants, rather than using any of his skills in a beneficial way.
I like his arc because it begins it strips away his bravado until he is face to face with the raw consequences of death and has to deal with that. I know there is annoyance at his womanizer portrayal, but that is consistent with his character and what I would expect. The fact that he grows from that is not only more interesting, but actually more in line with GR's vision later on, that Kirk is working to benefit himself and humanity.
Yes. The characterisation of Kirk is extremely well done, as is the performance. I think my issue is rather how he's treated by the other characters. If you want me to be impressed, show him doing something impressive that doesn't just involve him flying by the seat of his pants and succeeding through luck. Make him less james bond and more Jason Bourne.
There was quite a bit of luck in Prime Kirk's successes as well.
I guess I'm not wanting to be impressed by him. I want to see him grow.
Movie characters are kind of like kids to me. I want them to grow and mature and become better people. I don't need to be impressed or awed by their performance. I see it in working with people at work who just need encouragement to become better. Need someone to hold them accountable.
nuKirk is a show off, and an egomaniac. He feels he is infallible and bullet-proof. You know what, I can identify with that and want to see it change. He isn't perfect but he has such great potential that I can't help but want to see him learn, grow and succeed.
For me, that's a personal investment in the character that I rarely get any more. from a movie.
I didn't like Kirk's leap frogging in rank in the first film, and the conclusion of the first film doesn't support him being Captain of the Enterprise. Abrams should've made him a Commander and then left the academy than what was done but... I'm fine with it now. Abrams development of Kirk was less agonizing than what Berman and his disciples did to Picard in TNG movies.
JJTrek is good, and lightyears better than those TNG movies so I'll give JJ Abrams a pass, and didn't ruin Kirk.
JJTrek is good, and lightyears better than those TNG movies so I'll give JJ Abrams a pass, and didn't ruin Kirk.
I don't like his leapfrogging either, but I can move past it. A minor quibble, really.
We don't even know if that was Abrams choice or an edict handed down by Paramount.
Kirk's pretty poorly realised. He's not written well and I don't get / like Pine in the part. Yes, ruined.
Of the rest of the cast, Saldana's O.K., Quinto is good and Urban is outstanding. Everyone else is bloody awful. And/or horribly miscast. Pegg's appalling. And I generally like him !
Of the rest of the cast, Saldana's O.K., Quinto is good and Urban is outstanding. Everyone else is bloody awful. And/or horribly miscast. Pegg's appalling. And I generally like him !
I think I agree that, once you move past the leap-frogging, the overall picture is not so bad, apart from the bad real world science and plot holes but then TOS had those in spades too. However, I like all the actors' performances except Pegg. I do find Scotty's characterisation to be very poor. He was not just a fabulous engineer, he was an outstanding officer in TOS. NuScotty is a pretty poor officer and IMO being a good engineer is not the overriding factor for a chief engineer. I'd feel confident with Scotty in command on the bridge. I would not feel confident with NuScotty in command on the bridge. There is a gaping hole in the characterisation that is too large to fill with jokes.
Sulu is probably the best officer we see since Uhura wanders off-piste and brings her personal issues to the workplace. Chekov's personality is largely obscured by them giving him no particular niche but making him amazing at everything he does (almost the antithesis of TOS Chekov). Carol was ok, albeit a bit limited by her role in the story.
It look as though the new movie might take at least some of them off the reservation so I'm looking forward to seeing all seven get some character development.
I didn't like the direction of any of the characters really. I identify this film as rolling out Trek in graphic novel style which seems to be in vogue and popular with the kids. But I do think it was well cast which is arguably one of the most daunting things given what towering legends the TOS ensemble are. Pine, for me, does Kirk without being Shatner. I agree with you on Pegg.
I'm familiar with Pegg as a comedian and a sketch show performer for years before his stint on Trek. And that's what I saw when I saw Pegg. The guy performing a parody of Scott and had to snap myself into the idea that this was supposed to be straight faced account of Scott. He just came across like Shaggy from Scooby Doo and a court jester figure. I don't know if I'd have a better opinion of nuScott if I hadn't seen his comedic roles.
As usual, the world's problems are caused by Generation...what are we calling the latest lot?
wut
I don't know the latest Generational title. I know I'm on the cusp of the Millennial Generation but the one after that I don't know. Post-Modern Whatsits?
JJ Abrams borrowed the Luke Skywalker character traits for Kirk, heck even the movie itself borrowed scenes from Star Wars 1977. Luke looking at the sunset of Tatooine as a farmer in comparison with Kirk --raised in a farmland-- looking at the construction of a starship, both of them looking at those images as a new hope of life. I didn't like it when it first premiered but I get where Abrams wanted to take the character; Kirk was more so a maverick, a cowboy being introduced to a new frontier. Geared to take on the space Indians.
Generation AG (After-Google)?
NuKirk is a conventional, young action hero. Similar to TOS-Kirk by an outward reading but not the same if you make an exacting appraisal. I don't know if you can actually do TOS-Kirk today and make it work. It'd probably seem corny. NuKirk is depicted at a more rebel stage of his life and there's a coming-of-age theme, that isn't there with TOS-Kirk.
Of course, similarly ShatKirk in the movies is a different beast to TOS-Kirk. Some have said NuKirk is the same as ShatKirk in the TOS movies. I don't really get that.
Of course, similarly ShatKirk in the movies is a different beast to TOS-Kirk. Some have said NuKirk is the same as ShatKirk in the TOS movies. I don't really get that.
I wouldn't expect a one-to-one similarity in the two characters, but I see the fundamentals in the character being present. The raw material and potential as it were. Prime Kirk in the films is a bit more dynamic than in TOS, as Kirk actually goes through some changes by the end of most of the films, especially TWOK and TUC. We see Kirk having to face death, and deal with his own vulnerabilities in TWOK and really face some darker facets of himself that are not necessarily tided up neatly like in the end of an episode of TOS.
Nu-Kirk, similarly, is very dynamic character, facing down death and his almost cavalier attitude towards it, as well as his potential need for revenge. Again, he has to face very dark parts of himself, and face things that Prime Kirk really didn't face until the TOS films.
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