Fear the Walking Dead Season 2 discussion and spoilers.
- Thread starter Morpheus 02
- Start date
No, he treats everyone else curtly and to the point. He doesn't socialize, he doesn't mince his words, and he doesn't mask his intentions behind feigned politeness.
And he most certainly isn't treating anyone like slaves. Travis volunteered to fix the problem, and all Strand did was make it clear that it needed to happen now. Since his entire concern for the last few episodes has been about being a sitting duck for the pirates.
Totally agreed there. I'm not as annoyed of frustrated by the other characters as others on here are (and actually really like Nick and Daniel), but there's no denying that Strand is the most compelling character by far.
And unfortunately I don't see Travis or Maddie ever becoming all that interesting. I thought Maddie had some potential early on (and think the actress is doing a great job with what she's given), but lately it feels like the character is just sort of... there. And not really contributing all that much.
Not sure how you make something clear and that it needed to happen now more effectively than that.
And even if they did complain about it, so what? They already disliked him waaaaaaay before that scene. In fact, that scene is completely irrelevant to the main point: That the characters were suspicious and spiteful towards him before they had any logical reason to be.
What judgement?
You and the other anti-Strand members all cry that he's mysterious and is not forthcoming with information (forgetting that he's under no obligation to divulge anything). If so, any intelligent adult--particularly in a crisis situation will do one of the following things:
- Conclude that with no information on Strand, it would not be wise to follow him anywhere--again, especially in crisis situation where they've already witnessed civil unrest, mass death and never ending panic.
- If Strand is so mysterious, then the last thing any rational person will do it constantly antagonize or threaten the man who saved them, and it their only means of escape from what would have been a guaranteed death on the mainland.
You have just made my point: if any of your theories are rolling around the minds of the Travis group (and up to this point, it should not), then they should have refused to follow him once reaching the house. They were not forced to follow him at all, yet create a constantly threatening environment by demanding antagonizing and threatening. I ask you davejames--is that a logical reaction to the person responsible for the Travis group being alive?
Constant antagonism and threats do not earn respect.
Its only natural that he remind them that they are merely passengers he saved from guaranteed death. If they cannot show even a moment of grateful attitude for that, then they need to get off at the next port and never see Strand again. Do you think they are saying that so far? No.
Regarding the boat, some love running around in circles: Strand had a plan from the start that involved a house he clearly had access to, and a boat he clearly had access to--and knew how to run. Whether his name is on the registration, or he's working with / for someone else who owns the boat does not matter--he is still the captain of property he owns or is entrusted to run. The Travis group have no rights to demand or alter the management of the boat or its destination whatsoever.
I would not be surprised if the producers will have the torturing barber, or magically transform Travis or Madison into overnight badasses, in order to murder Strand, and as a result, the consequence-free Travis gang moves on and the series loses its best character.
Well said. They were hostile to Strand for no justifiable reason, and still act as if he owes them something.
There's much criticism of FTWD's characters in articles, social media, etc., which would all be avoided if the producers just said the Travis group were antiheroes, not The Waltons in Zombieland.
I think it is important to recognize that there are no "good guys" in this series. The Salazar and Travis families committed one of the worst acts we have seen on either of the series and they are basically incompetently dealing with encounters during the current season. Strand has not done anything as yet on par with the two families gross acts.
Perhaps it is actually brilliant writing, rather than sloppy writing, that is encouraging viewers to forgive the families and condemn Strand? Let's see how it plays out.
Perhaps it is actually brilliant writing, rather than sloppy writing, that is encouraging viewers to forgive the families and condemn Strand? Let's see how it plays out.
whOr killing off Travis & Madison.
But does anyone really think they will spend the whole season on the boat? It's going down some time soon.
We'll have something else to complain about soon enough.
You are right--and as you point out, Strand has not committed the immoral acts of the Travis group. Torturing a man, and we can only imagine how many innocent lives were lost by opening that stadium door. They were completely self-interested, with the welfare of others meaning nothing to them, which makes all of their fighting with Strand about saving people hypocritical, as they already crossed a truly deadly line in season one.
On The Walking Dead, where 6 years in, some characters are sort of in a fixed position, or if they experience a change, the meter always returns them to a familiar center (e.g. Daryl or Michonne). On the other hand, Fear the Walking Dead is early in its life, and considering the terrible acts committed by the Travis group, the producers would be taking a daring turn (for WD) by not swimming against the tide, and making them more villain than hero, as this growing nature would at least explain their behavior, when selling them as heroes does not feel natural.
Christ, I and others have already said that Strand is the most interesting character, and we don't consider Travis and Maddie without fault or negative qualities; far from it (read my comments on them from earlier in the thread). It would be nice if you could discuss a character without unquestioning support of every single thing he or she (in the case of Carol, who was like your Strand 1.0) does, regardless of changing circumstances.
And they saved him from execution at the hands of the Army before they decided to abandon and destroy Los Angeles.
But again, you're appealing to those same old world rights (like property and privacy rights) that Strand has made abundantly clear don't apply anymore when it comes to rendering assistance to vessels and people in distress. You can't have it both ways and cherry pick which old world values still carry weight or not. If it's an every man for himself world, then they're just operating on his level now. You can't be outraged about a dreaded footlocker violation but consider it perfectly okay to callously condemn other people you could have helped to death.
So, you don't know what a metaphor done for comedic effect is?
Strand was there when Travis was pouring over the manuals, which I assume Travis got from Strand rather than rummaging around the ship's bridge to find them.
Regardless of how things happened or began, though, that doesn't give Strand a pass to treat Travis like a common worker and to order him around.
Say you're outside working on your car, lawnmower, or some other piece of equipment beyond your skill-set to fix; a neighbor comes up and offers to help and immediately begins the repairs, apparently knowing what he is doing and having some expertise in what is going on. Wouldn't it be just a bit uncalled for if you were to say, "Good! Now I want this done as soon as possible, and no dilly-dallying on the job!" I mean here is someone helping you and you're bossing him around like you organized this to happen? Let's even go as far as to say whatever is going on dependent on that piece of machinery both of you count on to accomplish your goals but, ultimately, you own it. Again, you're out of your element to work on it but your companion works on it because he needs it to work too. Isn't it still a bit dickish for you to boss him around? I mean, he needs this to work too, and moreover he knows what it's going to take, and how long it's going to take, for it to be operational again.
And this isn't an argument over "changing Strand's" character or anything like that; he's acting within his character as we've seen him up to this point. And that character is kind-of a jackass.
No more basic than avoiding biting the dozen hands that surround you. So many people are all up in arms here about the law of the sea, but that has literally nothing to do with the basis of this group. In fact, the whole problem is that this group has no basis at all. They've all wound up together mostly accidentally and they have absolutely no commonly understood system of how to work together or treat each other.
Strand - who you've repeatedly described as the only real survivor in the group - is attempting to force a system of dictatorship on them while simultaneously making decisions that openly disgust them and treating every single one of them like dirt. His only basis for this system is 'it's my boat', which is a pathetically lame reason to give for why someone should listen to you, but it doesn't even matter if it is his boat or if you think people should respect the fact that it is his boat. What matters is that this supposedly smart survivor is actively turning the entire group against himself, even though he knows they massively outnumber him. That is stupid and a major character flaw (even if he does turn out to have an understandable motivation behind it).
Because I'm not talking about how he theoretically lived before the ZA. I'm talking about the fact that he turned to this boat as his only lifeline to survive and has thus far spent all his time sitting alone in the cabin worrying instead of making even the slightest effort to learn how the boat works and how to fix it if need be - and the fact that even when someone else takes it upon themselves to do so, he actively antagonizes them instead of just letting them get on with it.
I never called anyone else a dictator because none of the other characters have acted like dictators. But your complaint about me disliking him more than the others are total bullshit. Chris, Nick, and Alicia have all been unbelievably stupid morons again and again. Madison is literally all over the place - she wants to do the right thing, but seems completely incapable of actually accomplishing it. Travis is more consistent, but also so far unable to accept the fact that some things are inevitably different. Daniel is so far the only character who has seemed even remotely intelligent with no major blind spots for most of the show, but that comes at the cost of him being basically a sociopathic mass murderer. This show isn't very good with characters, and Strand is no exception, especially right now (at this particular moment in the show - ie, for the last 2 eps or so, and potentially for the next few as well - he is easily the dumbest character they have).
Threats were already coming dangerously close to the farm multiple times during that season, so the idea that isolation in any way would've protected them is ridiculous. (It certainly didn't protect Morgan's mentor). And the fact that the barn had dozens of zombies in it in the first place made it pretty much inevitable that something would go wrong eventually anyway.
It seems that some think Strand has the authority to do whatever he wants, but every other character should shut up and follow orders.
You guys do realize that the vast majority of the human race has never set foot on the ocean and doesn't know a damn thing about how boats are 'supposed' to be run outside of what they saw in Pirates of the Caribbean?
A mutiny is literally nothing more than a revolution on a boat. History and the vast majority of the human race would tend to strongly disagree that revolution is always immoral - it's morality is entirely dependent on the situation. Legality of course has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
It's not a matter of me wanting the other characters to mutiny, it's a matter of Strand seemingly going out of his way to create one even though he knows the rest of the group mistrusts him and could easily overpower him if they chose to. And of posters then claiming that that proves he's 'smart' and the 'only real survivor' on the show.
Apparently neither do you.
What's that saying about people who assume?
He was just acting the way he has acted since day one. Curt, to the point, and with no nonsense. And again -- and I can't stress this enough, no matter how much you people choose to ignore it -- those events occurred way after they had already decided to distrust him with no real reason to. Why you keep harping on this as the singular event and proof for why they do is beyond me.
Right. And your point is... what? You're kind of a jackass in this post. Does that mean I should treat you as an enemy, break into your house and rummage through your things trying to find proof to back that up, and threaten to kick you out and take over all of your possessions?
Cause that's pretty much what they've been doing practically since they met him. All based on information only the audience knows.
If you think that exchange between Strand and Travis about getting the engine fixed NOW was "curt and to the point", I'd like to see you use Strand's words on someone helping you in real life. It'll get you smacked at worse and most likely you'll lose that help. There is a big difference between your "curt and to the point" and Strand's ordering Travis to "get it done".
As an employer, I have and I do. On a regular basis. He's the captain of the ship, it's his duty to make sure people are doing their job -- it doesn't matter that Travis essentially volunteered for that one.
And again: Please point out how it matters to the conversation at hand. How does that scene in any way, shape, or form explain their attitude towards him since day one of meeting him. It's amazing how you keep glossing over that in order to make this pointless point of yours.
People actually think he's the captain of the ship? 
Is this because you're Trekkers and have an innate sense of... one must respect the chain of command?
He's about as much captain of that ship as Nick is chief tactical officer.
He's what the group allows him to be.
Is this because you're Trekkers and have an innate sense of... one must respect the chain of command?
He's about as much captain of that ship as Nick is chief tactical officer.
He's what the group allows him to be.
Yep, he's the captain of the ship and has crew of.... no one. And making sure "people are doing their job" what?! When did he employ and of these people? They're passengers. Travis was doing Strand a favor by working on the ship, again a favor that also has the benefit of helping himself but a favor none the less. He was doing something Strand could not do himself, that makes Strand a bit more indebted to Travis than the other way around and ordering Travis around like an employee isn't called for.
You don't order someone around who's doing you a favor, even if it's a favor he also benefits from.
As for everyone mistrusting Strand from what we've seen Strand has hardly been forthcoming with information and has been sort of a hardass bossing everyone around, other than Nick has he tried to make a personal connection of friendship with anyone?
You have to give and take, and in this world working together is that much more important and ordering people around is hardly a great way to get everyone to work together.
Strand's character is the most interesting of all of them, certainly, and I like his character but I can also admit that right now his character is kind of a jackass at this point and I don't believe for a moment this magical, secure, compound exists in Baja.
We see Travis rise out of bed, we next see him standing around in the main area of the ship with everyone else reading one of the ship's manuals. I don't know much about my luxury yachts but I'm guessing the manuals aren't kept in the guest staterooms, I suspect they'd be kept on the bridge. And from what we can see, been told and put together Strand has spent a good bulk of his time on the bridge. And just "knowing Travis" I doubt he'd have gotten up and helped himself to the ship's documents and likley would have gotten with Strand to work out the problem and look over the manuals.
It's called put things together from what you're given and not needing to be shown everything to know it had happened. So either Travis got up. rummaged around the ship until he found the manuals, and started poking around in them to figure out the problem and by the time he reached a conclusion everyone was watching him in the main room. Or... He got up, got in contact with Strand and worked with him to get the books and look over the trouble with the engine.
You guys make it sound like they're paid passengers on a cruise ship or something. They're only on that boat because he invited them in a moment of crisis. They owe him everything, and he owes them absolutely nothing. They sure as heck shouldn't expect to just sit on the boat the entire time with their feet propped up sipping margaritas while he does all the work at keeping them safe and finding yet another place for them to find safety.
But I've already addressed that, as well as everything else you've brought up, several times now. Instead of repeating myself for the umpteenth time, I'll just ask the two questions I've asked previously that all of you mysteriously keep ignoring:
1. Please point out how it matters to the conversation at hand. Namely, how does that scene in any way, shape, or form explain their attitude towards him since day one of meeting him?
and
2. You were kind of a jackass in this post. Does that mean I should treat you as an enemy, break into your house and rummage through your things trying to find proof to back that up, and threaten to kick you out and take over all of your possessions? I'm sure you think I'm a jackass, too. Does that mean you have the right to do all of those things to me, too?
'Cause that's pretty much what they've been doing practically since they met him. All based on information only the audience knows, with little to no reasons of their own. Certainly not to the level of suspicion they've had right out the gate.
