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Fear the Walking Dead Season 2 discussion and spoilers.

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Well observed.

TWD:
  • Season two: Hershel initially wanted to help Carl, then argued several times for Rick's group to leave.
  • Season three: Rick flatly refused to accept Tyreese's group.
  • Season three: Rick refused to rescue the backpack man on the road, which guaranteed the man's death.
  • Season six: Rick argued with Daryl about not even looking for others to bring in. He only changed his mind after disaster struck the ASZ, and Carl was shot.
So, we see this behavior is nothing new, yet for whatever reason, Strand is painted as the villain for protecting his resources and safety, and not wanting to listen to this questionable group.

And for those incidents listed above, those people realized their mistake later on. Certainly Hershel was wrong on many levels... but he was able to grow out of it.

Strand seems to be very solid in his stance, so we (many audience members) don't expect any attitude change this season.


You're the winner of the 2016 Missing the Point award.
I'd nominate you for that award, if you hadn't unilaterally voted on it.
The bug you seen to have up your ass about Strand completely ignores facts:
  • The Travis group would be dead if not for the plan Strand already had in place (house / boat). From the moment they boarded its been constant ungrateful, hostile behavior, when they conveniently forget that if they remained in L.A., they would be dead from the bombings, or walkers.
  • So, Madison and Travis trust and accept Daniel--a man who tortures--yet they are acting like Strand is this series version of the Governor. See an extremely warped sense of morality & judgement from those two?

  • I don't doubt their morality is shady in those situations. But the difference is - Daniel put his "safe place" and his family on the line for Travis & Madison's family, and himself, where he could have been shot by the soldiers. And Daniel in fact lost his wife due to helping the family...so they feel like they can forgive Daniel's "sins" and can trust him with their lives.
    [*]Constantly arguing with and now threatening the person responsible for their lives not ending in L.A. is the height of ungrateful, asshole behavior, and only keeps conflict center stage, when the focus should be on escape and survival.
Strand hasn't exactly made it clear that he would NOT sacrifice them when convenient for him. As a matter of fact, but casting off Alex & the kid, he's made it clear how much they should not trust him.
So far, the series paints a clear picture of who is trying to survive, and who is interested in creating conflict.
You also missed the point that common decency can go out the window, but property rights and privacy rights -- both human-made rights, trumps helping people who would otherwise die.

And as people have mentioned with Alex...if those other survivors were able to see the boat's name, or worse, the faces of the passengers.. expect some vengeance if they survive further. Contrast that to Madison...who I expect in season 3 to be rescued by Tobias in gratitude for saving him early on.


I think most people would agree that they don't like Travis & Madison & family... and that we all think Strand is one of the most interesting characters on the show, but as a "person", we don't like or trust him.

However, I am very interested to see if some of the theories here of who Strand really is will pan out. And if so, what do you say if we find out that the boat isn't actually his, or the reason he is in jail is because of that theft and/or murder of the real owner?
 
I will say one thing, there's a lot more passion and drama in this thread than there is in the actual show. :p
 
Strand hasn't exactly made it clear that he would NOT sacrifice them when convenient for him. As a matter of fact, but casting off Alex & the kid, he's made it clear how much they should not trust him.
I thought it was pretty clear (but evidently not) that he did so only because he didn't want to continue sitting in that same spot waiting for the pirates/scavangers to find them. Once under way, he did what's his right as the captain of the boat and made an executive decision -- the same one he made clear was his decision earlier -- to cut them loose. At least now they have some food, fresh water, and maybe even some medication.

You also missed the point that common decency can go out the window, but property rights and privacy rights -- both human-made rights, trumps helping people who would otherwise die.
People from this time period will almost always acknowledge (though maybe not respect) property rights. It's ingrained into us and the social contract we've been living under for hundreds of years.

I think most people would agree that they don't like Travis & Madison & family... and that we all think Strand is one of the most interesting characters on the show, but as a "person", we don't like or trust him.
I like him just fine. I wouldn't trust him, and a lot of that has to do with what we've seen as the audience, but I concur with his outlook in general. I wouldn't be quite as harsh this early on, I don't think, but I completely understand his mercenary outlook and why he's made most of the decisions he has. I'd understand it even more if my family were with us.

However, I am very interested to see if some of the theories here of who Strand really is will pan out. And if so, what do you say if we find out that the boat isn't actually his, or the reason he is in jail is because of that theft and/or murder of the real owner?
Yes, I'm really interested, too. Honestly, I think he may just be something as simple as a gun runner, drug smuggler, or something similar. Maybe even the head of a small organization which would explain his wealth a lot better. That doesn't really jibe completely with what we've seen (why is the person on the other end of the phone interested if he's "bringing them?"), but I'd be willing to wager it'll be something along those lines.
 
And for those incidents listed above, those people realized their mistake later on. Certainly Hershel was wrong on many levels... but he was able to grow out of it.

Well, one could argue if Hershel forced Rick's group off of the farm as soon as Carl was well, the field of walkers attracted by that fateful gunshot ("Better Angels") would have never overrun the farm. They would have continued moving in another direction. That means Hershel, Beth, Patricia and Jimmy would still be alive.

Strand seems to be very solid in his stance, so we (many audience members) don't expect any attitude change this season.

He has a survival mode goal that seemed to be in place from the moment he was introduced, so he should not change his position, unless some catastrophe occurs--which he's trying to avoid.

I'd nominate you for that award, if you hadn't unilaterally voted on it.

:hugegrin:

I don't doubt their morality is shady in those situations. But the difference is - Daniel put his "safe place" and his family on the line for Travis & Madison's family, and himself, where he could have been shot by the soldiers. And Daniel in fact lost his wife due to helping the family...so they feel like they can forgive Daniel's "sins" and can trust him with their lives.

Don't forget Daniel let the stadium walkers loose, and they are not guided missiles. When set free, that mass number spread everywhere--including the direction of the neighborhood, and anyone still living there. They had to consider that, but it was a selfish decision not caring about victims, just as long as their "mission" was accomplished. In other words, if the innocent died as a result of their actions, they are just collateral damage.

Strand hasn't exactly made it clear that he would NOT sacrifice them when convenient for him.

He is not going to have that conversation, as it implies he's a danger, and gives him the advantage of saying (should it come up) they are being the threatening aggressors. Right now, all he is doing is asserting his rightful authority as the owner/captain of the boat, who is in frustrated survivor mode.


Contrast that to Madison...who I expect in season 3 to be rescued by Tobias in gratitude for saving him early on.

Tobias? :lol: Living in the city means he's probably dead from walkers or bombings, unless he left the city not long after he was dropped off.


I think most people would agree that they don't like Travis & Madison & family... and that we all think Strand is one of the most interesting characters on the show, but as a "person", we don't like or trust him.

Hey, at least you admit Travis/Madison & family are not likable. Some act as if they're saints, justified in every action they take.

However, I am very interested to see if some of the theories here of who Strand really is will pan out. And if so, what do you say if we find out that the boat isn't actually his, or the reason he is in jail is because of that theft and/or murder of the real owner?

Some viewers think he's part of a larger group that might know something about the ZA, after all, when escaping the army jail, he did not seem to question much about the how and why of walkers (considering how new the outbreak was at that point), and his escape plan was so in place, that the behavior hints at something more than (for example) being a Dwight to another Negan type, or Milton to a Governor.

I just hope he's not killed off; he's such a sharp contrast to the rest of the characters that is gives FTWD universe a unique voice not seen / based on anyone from the parent series.
 
Oh look, another thread on a show I like and another thread filled with posts from TREK_GOD espousing his opinion and thoughts as though they were in-ignorable facts and 100% the right interpretation of events. Also numerous posts of him pretty much nitpicking and questioning the validity of a show, suggesting he does not like the show. Most of us watch TV for entertainment and to escape life a bit; apparently he purely hate-watches shows and delights in ripping them to shreds. Your DVR series-pass list must be fascinating.

For me the show is still weaker than it's parent series but it is sort of improving, this episode was pretty good; though I want more from Strand to know what his game is and why he's so insistent on not letting anyone else on board yet allowed on board this large group of people already. Nick I can see, there was "something" there between him and Nick, but what does he owe the Salazars? Or Travis and his son? Madison and Alicia, sure, they're directly related to Nick; but why everyone else?

He also seems to treat Travis in a pretty shitty manner. Sure they're exposed and in a time crunch but Travis was right, he doesn't work for Strand. Travis was helping out simply because he has the knowledge and skills to repair the boat, Strand could have shown a touch of respect for this "stranger" being so willing to do his part to keep them on their feet. (So to speak.)

Got to say, didn't really seem like they were all that dedicated to finding useful supplies and such in the wreckage, they seemed to be fooling around there more than anything else.

Strand cutting loose the raft seemed a bit extreme and needlessly dickish. Towing the raft seemed to be a decent compromise between abandoning them and letting them on board.

I didn't watch the Flight 4-whatever mini series because watching a story in 30-second vignettes over the course of 18 weeks struck me as bit annoying and tedious and will watch it when I can as a compiled together, cohesive, story; but the motiovations of the new character struck me as odd but -again, I don't know her story. She seemed terribly dedicated to keeping the guy alive who, apparently, had severe 3rd-degree burns over a good percentage of his body. Considering there's no longer any hopsitals or emergency burn wards that can isolate him in a sterile environment and perform surgical skin grafts, what chances for survival does he have? Hell, it's already been a few days since the plane crash, shock and the pain alone should have killed him by now.

Again, as I said, the show's not as god or captivating for me as the parent series. For TWD it's appointment TV, I make sure to make it to the TV when it is on and watch it as close to live as I can. For this show, watching it on a day or two long time-delay is okay.

TTD was good, the celebrity guest was enjoyable and another nice segment where Chris had the audience question-asker stay and help "co-host" the show for the rest of the segment.

Again, show is mostly good and this was a good episode for the walker stuff, but they need to take the Strand thing somewhere fast.

Also, more of Alicia in tank tops, thanks.
 
I didn't watch the Flight 4-whatever mini series because watching a story in 30-second vignettes over the course of 18 weeks struck me as bit annoying and tedious and will watch it when I can as a compiled together, cohesive, story.
You can watch it online in its entirety now:

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Oh look, another thread on a show I like and another thread filled with posts from TREK_GOD espousing his opinion and thoughts as though they were in-ignorable facts and 100%

Oh look, another thread where Trekker4747 flames other members in a Walking Dead thread, while hypocritically forgetting how he forces his views on other members as stone-hammered facts, as in the Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice thread. Not such a smooth move.

Most of us watch TV for entertainment and to escape life a bit; apparently he purely hate-watches shows and delights in ripping them to shreds.

...which did not apply to your slash and burning of endless elements of Dawn of Justice (and other productions I will not list here). So, continue your self-defeating, BS hypocrisy, while other discuss the series. Regarding BvS, instead of jumping to the put-downs of a film that made you angry, you could have saved your money. Oh, but then you would not be able to rant about it, MoS, etc.

Strand could have shown a touch of respect for this "stranger" being so willing to do his part to keep them on their feet. (So to speak.)

He should give Travis the same amount of respect Madison gave him by threatening to throw him overboard.


Strand cutting loose the raft seemed a bit extreme and needlessly dickish. Towing the raft seemed to be a decent compromise between abandoning them and letting them on board.

She seemed terribly dedicated to keeping the guy alive who, apparently, had severe 3rd-degree burns over a good percentage of his body. Considering there's no longer any hopsitals or emergency burn wards that can isolate him in a sterile environment and perform surgical skin grafts, what chances for survival does he have?

So, you think she's wasting her time trying to keep a person alive. What was that about Strand again?

Also, more of Alicia in tank tops, thanks.
 
Let's go back to how this all unfolded. Strand was going to escape the army compound whether Travis' group arrived or not (he was not relying on them)--which means he had been prepared to escape to his house, and then to the boat. That Nick was in his cell was coincidence, so let's not pretend Strand was some incompetent user who would have died if not for Travis and company.

Moreover, when someone offers you shelter in a Los Angeles that was falling to the walking dead, then offer you passage on his boat, what part of wisdom and common sense is missing for:

  • Daniel breaks into his private possessions. In the real world, people have been shot for less, but even if it does not go to violence, its such an incredibly disrespectful violation. If Strand found out, how in the world can Daniel justify that?
  • Madison to threaten to throw Strand overboard for some wholly imagined threat to her kids? Really? At that point, what made her think he would not just grab her and do the same, or (since he's armed) force them to "walk the plank?" Do you think there's any common sense in threatening the owner/captain of the boat who is responsible for you being alive? Where were they going to go if not for Strand? They would have been trying to get through an overrun city that was soon to be bombed. End of their story.

I expect Daniel can justify breaking and entering in exactly the same way Strand can justify lying through his teeth about where he's taking everyone over and over and over. They're pretty much both on the same level of morality and both done for the same basically selfish reasons.

And the threat to Madison's kids is not even remotely imaginary. Strand has lied a dozen times over, has now openly admitted to lying while refusing to explain why, has acted like an angry dictator and has proven he has absolutely no regard for any agreement he makes with the other people in his group - if need be, he'll just nod his head and come back later to force his own way when no one's looking. When your family's lives are in the hands of someone that untrustworthy and unpredictable, a warning of some sort is not out of order.

Remember, he was headed to his boat anyway. If he escaped alone, he would have made every move in the same way we see now, and probably would not have stopped at suicide island, or plane wreck beach.

And he would now be sitting on a useless boat floating aimlessly over the ocean because he's too stupid to realize that learning how to fix the damn boat might be a necessary skill.

You say that about him, but again, where is the common sense in a passenger threatening the life of the captain? Where can that go?

Where is the common sense in respecting a 'captain' who has no legitimate claim to the term 'captain' in the first place, who acts like a dictator, who openly lies to your face and does not give an ounce of respect to anyone even when they're *actively engaged in saving his life*?

You're the winner of the 2016 Missing the Point award.

The bug you seen to have up your ass about Strand completely ignores facts:
  • The Travis group would be dead if not for the plan Strand already had in place (house / boat). From the moment they boarded its been constant ungrateful, hostile behavior, when they conveniently forget that if they remained in L.A., they would be dead from the bombings, or walkers.
  • So, Madison and Travis trust and accept Daniel--a man who tortures--yet they are acting like Strand is this series version of the Governor. See an extremely warped sense of morality & judgement from those two?
  • Constantly arguing with and now threatening the person responsible for their lives not ending in L.A. is the height of ungrateful, asshole behavior, and only keeps conflict center stage, when the focus should be on escape and survival.
So far, the series paints a clear picture of who is trying to survive, and who is interested in creating conflict.

The only one with a 'bug up their ass' here is you. Your hatred for all the non-Strand characters in the show is so ridiculously over the top that you've declared Strand to be the savior of the show and refuse to accept the fact that he is just as flawed a character as the others and that their treatment of him is a direct result of his treatment of them. He behaves in an untrustworthy manner and therefore he is not trusted. It's not rocket science.

Well, one could argue if Hershel forced Rick's group off of the farm as soon as Carl was well, the field of walkers attracted by that fateful gunshot ("Better Angels") would have never overrun the farm. They would have continued moving in another direction. That means Hershel, Beth, Patricia and Jimmy would still be alive.

If Rick's group had left, Hershel would have continued housing zombies in the barn, so, therefore, they all would've died a lot sooner when that pathetic lock broke open in the middle of the night.


He is not going to have that conversation, as it implies he's a danger, and gives him the advantage of saying (should it come up) they are being the threatening aggressors. Right now, all he is doing is asserting his rightful authority as the owner/captain of the boat, who is in frustrated survivor mode.

No, what he's doing right now is desperately trying to fool everyone into thinking that he actually has any real power in this situation. The only reason he's gotten away with this behavior this long is because the rest of the group is so wishy-washy and indecisive. And, also, desperate to see the good in people, so that much works out for Strand.


Tobias? :lol: Living in the city means he's probably dead from walkers or bombings, unless he left the city not long after he was dropped off.

Given his extraordinary insight into what was happening, why on earth would you think he wouldn't have done exactly that?


Hey, at least you admit Travis/Madison & family are not likable. Some act as if they're saints, justified in every action they take.

No. No one here has said anything like that.
 
Oh look, another thread where Trekker4747 flames other members in a Walking Dead thread, while hypocritically forgetting how he forces his views on other members as stone-hammered facts, as in the Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice thread. Not such a smooth move.

The BvS thread? The one I haven't posted in for a month? The one where I state my opinions on things and disapproval of how Zach Snyder is handling the DCEU? I also forced my views on no one.

..which did not apply to your slash and burning of endless elements of Dawn of Justice (and other productions I will not list here). So, continue your self-defeating, BS hypocrisy, while other discuss the series. Regarding BvS, instead of jumping to the put-downs of a film that made you angry, you could have saved your money. Oh, but then you would not be able to rant about it, MoS, etc.

Vast difference between me going to see a movie, not liking it, and then critiquing it and your weekly nitpicking and attacking of shows like Supergirl, The Walking Dead and Fear the Walking Dead. Where, weekly, you come in and pretty much rant and moan about the show and the elements you did not like, question the intent, talent and integrity of the creative staff and apparently think a weekly TV series needs to have an effects budget of a blockbuster movie.

Yeah, I'll see a movie, not like it, and rant about it but usually once it is off my chest and said my piece I don't post much more. (The BvS thread I've not posted in for nearly a month.) If I see an episode of a TV show I don't like I'll say so and tune in next week. But I don't hate watch a weekly TV series and then make it a point to go into that thread after every episode and make a list of things to not like about it, suggest the show needs to be canceled, or question why people watch it/it's still on air, etc.

Every week the one thing I can "expect" most on the shows you and I both watch is for you to come in with a list of things ranting about the show and essentially placing yourself in the center of all of the arguments about the events of the show. Seriously, if these shows frustrate or rile you up so much, why are you still watching?
 
This same discussion ran another thread into the ground yesterday, so I'm all for getting this discussion back on track.

I'm still watching this show out of faith--this week we saw a few more zombies but I'm still not invested in any of the main characters and only know their names from watching this thread. Both Strand and Daniel seem like they could be interesting characters but I wish the show would give us more to go on. I'm also hoping that we break out of this stand alone episode routine--I would like to see some complications from characters' actions continue through to the next episode. The last couple of weeks have held my attention, but I still think the show needs a little more spirit and depth.
 
I expect Daniel can justify breaking and entering in exactly the same way Strand can justify lying through his teeth about where he's taking everyone over and over and over. They're pretty much both on the same level of morality and both done for the same basically selfish reasons.

The difference is that this is all Strand's deal. Aside from the unbalanced scale (in his favor) of him saving their lives from walkers and/or bombings, he's not even given the benefit of doubt. He's relentlessly criticized, disrespected, threatened and generally harassed. If Daniel was the captain of the boat and provided the only means of escape, I would say the same thing.

Avoiding biting the hand that feeds you out of the gate is just an accepted rule of basic human relationships, and that rule is only broken when one the one that fed you violates that relationship.

So far, as of a few season one and two episodes, Strand is not the Governor or Negan--he's not kidnapping people, executing them, or forcing anything on them. What has he asked for? What are his demands (other than basic respect)? On the other hand, Travis & company demand, demand, demand, violate and threaten. If you were Strand, would you put up with that?

And the threat to Madison's kids is not even remotely imaginary. Strand has lied a dozen times over, has now openly admitted to lying while refusing to explain why, has acted like an angry dictator and has proven he has absolutely no regard for any agreement he makes with the other people in his group - if need be, he'll just nod his head and come back later to force his own way when no one's looking. When your family's lives are in the hands of someone that untrustworthy and unpredictable, a warning of some sort is not out of order.

...but you're ignoring how every step of the way, Travis & company attempt to force their will on Strand--
  • Travis encourages Alicia to use the radio--which was idiotic and dangerous. Now, the boat is trying to outrun some unknown ship and/or group.
  • Madison tried to force the suicide mother's kids on board--not even thinking to ask the captain/owner if it was acceptable. Who does that? Same with the airplane survivors. This family just forces their will as if they are running the show. No normal mind operates in that way yet fails to expect conflict.



And he would now be sitting on a useless boat floating aimlessly over the ocean because he's too stupid to realize that learning how to fix the damn boat might be a necessary skill.

Or, without making pointless detours, he would have reached his destination long before the problem. Moreover, few boat captains--both pleasure and commercial never fix their own boats. It is common for owners to use boat repair/maintenance services. Millions buy cars, but the majority are not trying to fix their cars on their own, yet no one calls them "stupid" for operating a vehicle they do not repair. Are they less entitled to own and decide how their vehicle is used? How is it any different for Strand--who obviously owned the boat long before the ZA, and probably used maintenance services like endless boat and car owners?

Where is the common sense in respecting a 'captain' who has no legitimate claim to the term 'captain' in the first place, who acts like a dictator, who openly lies to your face and does not give an ounce of respect to anyone even when they're *actively engaged in saving his life*?

He owns the boat and knows how to operate (drive) it, read its instruments and maps. That makes him the captain.


The only one with a 'bug up their ass' here is you.

Said the person who is so completely hostile to the Strand character, calling him a dictator, stupid and other insults you never use against the Travis gang.

Hmm....what was that again about the bug up the ass?


If Rick's group had left, Hershel would have continued housing zombies in the barn, so, therefore, they all would've died a lot sooner when that pathetic lock broke open in the middle of the night.

The barn was not the TARDIS. It had limited space, and he was not going to keep piling endless numbers of zombies on top of zombies until the walls fell, or filling it to the point where even cracking to door meant a horde spilled out like college game day. Only using on screen evidence, Rick's group inadvertently caused the fall of the farm with that gunshot, and as a result, the Greene family were "out in the world," exposed to threats the would have never encountered if remaining on the farm.

Given his extraordinary insight into what was happening, why on earth would you think he wouldn't have done exactly that?

His "insight" was that he head there were infections in 5 states, and in this culture, its likely he--like others--heard rumors or confirmations online. His advantage is that he was quick to believe the reports. That said, unless you have some natural survival skills (ex. Glenn in TWD season one), you will not only have to struggle to survive, but have your chances cut down if you have family members and/or friends who are not up to the challenge (too frail, panicking, fatalistic, disbelieving, insisting on waiting for government rescue, etc.).

If some tough group passed through L.A. and he joined them, then I could see him surviving, but without such an intervention, he would be as susceptible to the mass walker outbreak as everyone else--or he hides in a house like Morgan (TWD S1).
 
The BvS thread? The one I haven't posted in for a month?

It is an active, relevant thread. No dodging it.

The one where I state my opinions on things and disapproval of how Zach Snyder is handling the DCEU? I also forced my views on no one.

You hammered Snyder, MoS & BvS over and over again; it was no one line review or impression, but picking the film to pieces to attempt to bury it. Its as if you had to keep blasting for fear the movie would not succumb to your (self assured) attack.


Vast difference between me going to see a movie, not liking it, and then critiquing it and your weekly nitpicking and attacking of shows like Supergirl, The Walking Dead and Fear the Walking Dead.

A TV series...remember a TV series is a weekly form of entertainment, so one will comment on the weekly installments, then move on, unless a plot inspires continued conversation (the general course of TV threads). Far different than a single film that you might see one time, but obsessively go on and on and on and on about how horrible it is, when it would have been just as easy to post one time, and walk away from it...or not see the film at all, since you were just as negative about its predecessor, and had to kick it in the BvS thread. We get it, guy.

So, before you even think about shooting (weak) arrows this way, remove the hypocritical goggles, since I can easily find examples beyond BvS.
 
The difference is that this is all Strand's deal. Aside from the unbalanced scale (in his favor) of him saving their lives from walkers and/or bombings, he's not even given the benefit of doubt. He's relentlessly criticized, disrespected, threatened and generally harassed. If Daniel was the captain of the boat and provided the only means of escape, I would say the same thing.

Avoiding biting the hand that feeds you out of the gate is just an accepted rule of basic human relationships, and that rule is only broken when one the one that fed you violates that relationship.

So far, as of a few season one and two episodes, Strand is not the Governor or Negan--he's not kidnapping people, executing them, or forcing anything on them. What has he asked for? What are his demands (other than basic respect)? On the other hand, Travis & company demand, demand, demand, violate and threaten. If you were Strand, would you put up with that?

Um, we're not talking about the freakin military here where everyone is expected to follow the Captain's every order and not question him. These are all a bunch of civilians escaping a zombie apocalypse on some rich guy's yacht.

And this is a guy with mysterious motives who seems like he'd be willing to abandon anyone in the group at any moment, so for the sake of their families I think Madison and Daniel are more than justified in questioning him and expressing their concerns about him.

Somehow it's okay for Strand to be ruthless with the people he encounters, but Madison and Daniel aren't allowed to be the same way when it comes to him? And are just supposed to completely obey and trust in everything he does, just because they're on his boat?? Talk about unrealistic.
 
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He owns the boat and knows how to operate (drive) it, read its instruments and maps. That makes him the captain.

Period. End of story. Isn't that like Law of the Sea 101? I'm surprised people in this thread are having trouble grasping that concept.

I'm not, however, surprised to hear that The Idiot Family is having trouble getting it. I missed the last episode because I was traveling. Glad to see absolutely nothing has changed with FTWD. For a minute there I thought it might actually start getting good.
 
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