Not liking it

[DonIago]

I think they find the series interesting but not exactly compelling, which is exactly the reaction I'd expect and sorta hope for at this point in the show; it will make things more rewarding later on.

That said, these two aren't exactly the brightest bulbs I know (one of them had an "interesting" take on "The Inner Light", for instance), so...maybe not. Eh, -I'm- enjoying seeing TNG in Blu ray and rewatching DS9 in any case.

 

[apollo1984]

Personally I find quite a lot of trek difficult to relate to as too many of the characters I simply can't relate too as they seem as 'human' to me as data does I no longer really recognise them as human as they are far removed from humans I know. with DS9 its different you have characters who are deeply flawed still in the same setting as the rest of trek but I can relate to individual characters.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I'm afraid this thread lost me from the very first sentence. I must have missed the part where INS was about doing the right thing...but no reason to get into that discussion again.

Do you mean the movie that Picard spent most of trying to bang a married woman?

That said, these two aren't exactly the brightest bulbs I know (one of them had an "interesting" take on "The Inner Light", for instance)

Do tell....

 

[Kor]

Was Anij supposed to be married? I don't remember them saying that in the movie.

But I'm not about to watch it again to find out!

Kor

 

[dub]

^LOL!

 

[Tosk]

Do you mean the movie that Picard spent most of trying to bang a married woman?

Who was she married to?

 

[DonIago]

Do tell....

(sigh) Without meaning to initiate a debate here, my friend's comments on TIL basically boiled down to:
1) Why didn't they just load the probe with books?
2) How is what the probe does to Picard any different from what the Borg did to him? (would that be the Trek equivalent of Godwin's Law?)

 

[USS Triumphant]

Who was she married to?

I just went and looked, and apparently it is never explicitly said on screen that she was married to Sojef, the leader of the Ba'ku. But it is implied, and it is either said or *strongly* implied in the novelization. (Sorry for the vagueness, but like Kor, I have no real intention of digging deeply back into this material. )

(sigh) Without meaning to initiate a debate here, my friend's comments on TIL basically boiled down to:
1) Why didn't they just load the probe with books?
2) How is what the probe does to Picard any different from what the Borg did to him? (would that be the Trek equivalent of Godwin's Law?)

Well, #1 has a bunch of problems, which I hope you explained. Teachable moment. But as for #2, yeah, I honestly have to say that I take their point. There *are* differences, and obviously intention matters, but, they *did* take him over without his consent and make him unable to live his own life for what to him seemed like several decades - with no knowledge or apparent regard for what effect that would have on the alien they did it to.

 

[Tosk]

But it is implied, and it is either said or *strongly* implied in the novelization.

The novelization makes it explicit that they are not married.

Sojef, Artim’s father, would be waiting there; Sojef, straight and solemn, always and forever with a question in his eyes. And Anij, with the same answer in hers: Not yet, not yet …

She had always thought her answer was based on purely solid reasoning: that she was still young, and Sojef, too; that there was still time for such commitments, for children. True, he was a good man-leader of the entire Baku community, six hundred now, and growing slowly again after so many were lost during the Time of Sorrows. She knew, also, from the now departed Barel, that Sojef had been the most devoted of husbands, the gentlest of lovers.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Alright - my memory is flawed. About a movie I did not want to remember. LOL.

Thanks for the correction, anyway.

 

[DonIago]

(sigh) Without meaning to initiate a debate here, my friend's comments on TIL basically boiled down to:
1) Why didn't they just load the probe with books?
2) How is what the probe does to Picard any different from what the Borg did to him? (would that be the Trek equivalent of Godwin's Law?)

Well, #1 has a bunch of problems, which I hope you explained. Teachable moment. But as for #2, yeah, I honestly have to say that I take their point. There *are* differences, and obviously intention matters, but, they *did* take him over without his consent and make him unable to live his own life for what to him seemed like several decades - with no knowledge or apparent regard for what effect that would have on the alien they did it to.

Honestly, I was neither invested enough in the argument itself nor in the person I'd be arguing with to spend time explaining my issues with his grievances.

In some ways I grant there are similarities between the Kataanian probe and the Borg...but I also think there's a rather large difference between objectively taking over control of someone for the rest of their life (and leaving them aware of what's going on in the process), and rendering someone unconscious while transferring memories to them for under 30 minutes. And in any case, I certainly wouldn't argue that the probe "mind-raped" Picard (his word). Most importantly, Picard doesn't seem to regret the experience he had with the probe, while I'm not aware that we ever saw an individual who did not regret being assimilated (maybe 7 of 9 initially?) once they'd experienced free will.

I suppose it's possible that the probe spent 1,000 years zapping people all over the galaxy and forcing The Kamin Experience upon them, and that they loathe what happened to them, but that seems outside the scope of the episode as surely as the question of "Why didn't they just load the probe with books?" is. Besides, it's also possible that the probe had some sort of mechanism that would prevent it from forcing itself upon an unwilling subject.

 

[DonIago]

I just went and looked, and apparently it is never explicitly said on screen that she was married to Sojef, the leader of the Ba'ku. But it is implied, and it is either said or *strongly* implied in the novelization. (Sorry for the vagueness, but like Kor, I have no real intention of digging deeply back into this material. ).

Hey, maybe the Ba'ku, or just Anij and Sojef, are poly.

 

[RAMA]

I have some nostalgia for season 1 of DS9, but there are a few stinkers in there.

RAMA

 

[USS Triumphant]

Hey, maybe the Ba'ku, or just Anij and Sojef, are poly.

As long as they could live, I was thinking more like vampires - they don't care if their SO has a dalliance with a mortal or goes and lives on the other side of the planet for a couple of decades, because they'll always be around for each other once the mortal dies or Luxembourg finally gets boring.

 

[BillJ]

Well, #1 has a bunch of problems, which I hope you explained. Teachable moment.

Do tell how zapping one person with those memories is somehow less problematic than sending an iPad or some other computer device full of data?

Besides, it's also possible that the probe had some sort of mechanism that would prevent it from forcing itself upon an unwilling subject.

Pretty neat trick considering the human brain would be unknown to them. They could've just asked...

I'm in the mind rape camp.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Do tell how zapping one person with those memories is somehow less problematic than sending an iPad or some other computer device full of data?

It almost certainly isn't. But that also isn't what was said. They said "books". Heavy, heavy books. Requiring much more fuel to lift out of the gravity well and for maneuvering once in space. Requiring figuring out how to treat the materials of the books so that they will survive an extended space journey, preferably without requiring generating an artificial environment - which would require figuring out HOW to generate an artificial environment, and also providing power to do so.

They apparently figured out how to create and launch an interstellar probe (which may not have even been FTL capable), and their neural technology was obviously more advanced than our own - but aside from those, I never got the impression that they were all that advanced. Barely 20th century in tech level, otherwise. So achieving all of the above might have proved daunting in the time they had left when they decided to launch a record of themselves for posterity.

As to electronic records of books and such, as you suggest, you're right - but also, we don't know that they didn't include such things in the probe's computer. Just that it wasn't stated that they did, on screen, so far.

 

[RandyS]

Love DS9. The first two seasons are pretty weak but it's a powerhouse of a show after that.

And there's good stuff to be had in the first two seasons as well.

 

[MacLeod]

And there's good stuff to be had in the first two seasons as well.

"Duet" being one of those highs.

 

[BillJ]

And there's good stuff to be had in the first two seasons as well.

"Duet" being one of those highs.

And "Captive Pursuit".

 

[Kor]

I like the concept of "Move Along Home," if not the execution.

Kor