No. It's something you do once in a lifetime.
If an overly emotional half-blood like Spock can achieve it, it really cannot be that hard.
What is THE Worst continuity error in Trek history..?!
- Thread starter Roald
- Start date
- Status
If an overly emotional half-blood like Spock can achieve it, it really cannot be that hard.
^ Exactly! So that pretty much proves how rare Kolinahr is.
It is not rare if everyone does it once in a lifetime!
^ And what's your evidence that "everyone does it"?
Yes, I know. I don't know what the source is though. 'Not everyone was required' could mean anything. It could mean that it was bloody common but not strictly mandatory (which makes sense, Vulcan is not a totalitarian society) or it could mean it is quite rare.
I don't have it. But it could be so. Or not. We don't know.
I already remember what was said in TMP and other sources are ENT and VOY. I have some standards!It mentions the episodes it draws the information from. Go watch some Trek!
Kolinahr of Asil, Tuvok's youngest daughter was mentioned in VOY. Janeway was present. Yeah, to me it still sounds something like Christian confirmation.
Last edited:
"There's a thing that was terrible - I vaguely recall - though it might have been something else - anyway: terrible!"
KOV: Is it true you mate year-round, with any of them you choose?
TUCKER: You haven't been around humans too much, have you?
KOV: You're the first we've met, but I've heard a lot of stories. Your people indulge their passions. Do you really eat six meals a day?
TUCKER: More like three.
KOV: And what about sleep? I understand you spend more than half the day in bed.
TUCKER: Eight hours. We sleep for eight hours. In my case, about six. When we're through here maybe we can get a bite to eat. I might be able to clear up some of your misconceptions.
TUCKER: You haven't been around humans too much, have you?
KOV: You're the first we've met, but I've heard a lot of stories. Your people indulge their passions. Do you really eat six meals a day?
TUCKER: More like three.
KOV: And what about sleep? I understand you spend more than half the day in bed.
TUCKER: Eight hours. We sleep for eight hours. In my case, about six. When we're through here maybe we can get a bite to eat. I might be able to clear up some of your misconceptions.
Note the remark about humans "indulging their passions". Note too the comment "any of them you choose" - obviously a contrast to the Vulcan practice of arranged marriages, which I don't think anyone has suggested is biologically determined.
The following is perhaps more specific to the topic:
KOV: We were just discussing Vulcan mating rituals. Most of my people are extremely uncomfortable talking about such things. So many inhibitions. Vulcan males are driven to mate once every seven years.
TUCKER: Seven years?
REED: Frightening.
KOV: Over the past few years, we've been developing methods to accelerate the mating cycle.
TUCKER: Seven years?
REED: Frightening.
KOV: Over the past few years, we've been developing methods to accelerate the mating cycle.
Note that Vulcan males are "driven to mate" every seven years, not "can only mate" every seven years (although the humans in this conversation understand Kov to mean the latter). But if we bear in mind the previous conversation about indulging passions, I think it's obvious that Vulcans are socially prohibited from sex outside Pon Farr, but not biologically inhibited.
The "rebel Vulcans" didn't reject Surak, but claimed that he had been wrongly interpreted.
(BTW, the Vulcans at the time of ENT followed a corrupted version of Surak's teachings. In the season 4 Vulcan arc, his true teachings were brought to light.)
Last edited:
In addition to all the other examples provided by others about how uncommon Kohlinar is, I'll add that Tuvok had to give up his Kohlinar because of his ponn farr. Which seems a raw deal to me. "Dedicate yourself to the years long path to purge emotions and become the most Vulcan possible. But do it within seven years or you miss out."
The ponn farr rituals likely started after Surak, but it's entirely possible the seven year mating urge existed before Surak. It just wasn't as noticeable. Ponn farr is as noticeable among post-Surak Vulcans because it interferes with their emotional control, and it's dealt with by engaging in ceremony and ritual with family and friends on hand to witness the event. Pre-Surak when Vulcans were openly emotional the only evidence they were experiencing ponn farr would likely be a more irritable mood, which they just solved by going to the club and hooking up for the night. By the same logic, Romulans likely experience ponn farr as well.
No, it's more trouble than it's worth. Just watch Disney's attempt with the "Lucas Story Group" a group of Star Wars canon consultants meant to keep the tie-ins and new movies consistent.I think every future Star Trek show should have a Star Trek consultant.
But they are just controlling their emotions. This is backed up by the fact that every Vulcan who has been a main character or a supporting character has at some point lost control of their emotions. Hell, the fact that ponn farr makes them lose their emotional control is the very definitive proof they are only controlling their emotions.
Not only that, but reading Leonard Nimoy's memoirs about creating Spock that was the concept he eventually wove in to that character. The idea that, beneath the surface, was intense emotions that he kept under tight control. One of the facets of TOS was often some alien influence removing Spock's emotional control and showing the raw intensity of them (he's tried to kill Kirk at least twice under such circumstances).
Well that indeed seems bizarre. Why couldn't he attempt it again later? Spock did his after his Pon Farr.
As for several people saying that they sometimes exhibited emotions (usually under unusual circumstances) that it must mean that thy had to have emotions all the time, just kept them hidden. No, it doesn't need to mean that. I think the emotionless state is kinda like constant state of meditation. It is a learned thing and it can be broken. That being said, it is something that has been so ingrained that most Vulcans probably cannot intentionally just drop it. That's why they have sometimes hard time understanding emotions and emotional behavior.
Also, did anybody read what I wrote about Xon? Sure, it never made on screen, but shows Roddenberry's thinking on the subject.
Last edited:
But then you have Soval, who was frequently on the verge of an angry outburst and wasn't uncommon for him to raise his voice. In fact, he kind of admitted he just controls his true feelings in this exchange:
Soval: "The truth is Commander, after thirty years spent on your world I have developed a certain affinity for it."
Trip: "You've done a pretty good job hiding it."
Soval: "Thank you."
Not to mention later in that story arc Soval gets captured by Shran who manages to block out the brains ability to repress emotions, thus turning Soval raging emotional. There's also a Voyager episode where Tuvok and B'Elanna are captured. Tuvok is later taken away for interrogation, during which B'Elanna hears him screaming. When he's returned, he admits Vulcans can only endure pain to a certain point, then it becomes impossible to block out.
I already said that I think Vulcans in ENT sucked. I guess it can be rationalised by them having lost true teachings of Surak which were later regained.
People seem to use 'repress' and 'control' interchangeably, but I don't think they're the same. When you repress emotions you're not really experiencing them, if you merely control them, you are. I am claiming that normally Vulcans do not experience much emotions and thus have limited understanding of them.
I don't think pain and emotion are really the same thing. They are similar, but not the same. And anyway, it is certainly implied that Vulcans have greater ability to ignore pain than humans do.
Gonna have to ponder on that one...
No, it's just that two completely different people were having the exact same fight at the same time, in the same place in the same clothes due to quantum.
I thought they were pretty spot on in comparison to the source material (TOS). They didn't toe the line with fan assumptions about Vulcans.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
