The merged and improved (?) KIC 8462852 thread

[Dryson]

I don't know the answer to the question but I do know what one hand clapping sounds like.

Really, as I've written it before, we need more data.

The only real way to get more data is to be in the same system with KIC 8462.

Wouldn't two gas giants colliding cause enough friction to be present to cause the gas to ignite?

The theory is interesting to say the least.

If two gas giants did collide and had planetary rings then the result could have been that fragments of the cores of both planets shattered yet still retaining some of the gas in orbit around the core orbited KIC 8462. Perhaps the 15% dim was caused by a smaller fragment of a gas core with gas causing the dim. The 22% dim could have been caused by a much larger fragment of the gas giant core with gas orbiting KIC 8462.

The smaller dims could suggest smaller pieces of the cores or ring networks maintaining their own orbit around the larger fragments or even possibly maintaining their own orbit around KIC 8462. Some of the data suggests that dual orbits of more than one object are present orbiting KIC 8462.

With a planetary collision between two gas giants the debris would be everywhere in the KIC system. But in order for two gas giants to collide and outside force such as a larger sun than KIC 8462 would need to be present to cause the two planets to collide. The only other force in space would be a powerful gravitational wave that might be able to knock the planets out of a regular orbit and into an irregular orbit causing the planets to collide.

I am certain Jason Wright and Tabetha Boyajian will be interested in this idea.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It was alientrollwithonepost who suggested the idea, not me.

 

[scotthm]

The only real way to get more data is to be in the same system with KIC 8462.

That's the only real way other than all the other real ways.

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[Doom Shepherd]

Dunning-Kruger Effect is a terrible thing to have, and a worse thing to observe in others.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I'm so glad it has a name.

 

[PurpleBuddha]

Dunning-Kruger Effect is a terrible thing to have, and a worse thing to observe in others.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

I am an expert on the Dunning-Kruger effect, and can tell even by your short post that you have it all wrong and likely don't even have a degree in psychology (sp?) or the paranormal.

Here is a more descriptive peer reviewed paper on the subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato

 

[Silvercrest]

I am an expert on the Dunning-Kruger effect, and can tell even by your short post that you have it all wrong and likely don't even have a degree in psychology (sp?) or the paranormal.

Here is a more descriptive peer reviewed paper on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato

Well, I have a pH-DD in parapsychology, and I can tell even by your short post that you don't know anything about potatoes!
So there.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I am still holding true to my theory or suggestion that comets did not create the dims of KIC 8462 which is supported by many other claims from the scientific community as well.

It's supported by exactly ONE claim from ONE scientist who mistakenly insisted that a putative century-long dimming event using defunct methods that no one can verify must have the same cause because Ockham's Razor.

So it's not "many" and even calling it "supported" is more than a little generous.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

We’re no more ready to declare comets the cause of KIC 8462’s anomalies than we are to confirm alien megastructures.

.. wrote a single blogger who is apparently quoted because Gizmodo's writers do all of their research on Google.

To determine if a possible large swarm of comets caused the dim of KIC 8462 that be could possibly proven to exist based on causing dims of distant stars that the swarm of comets passed between we would need to know the angle that Kepler observed KIC 8462 relative to the telescopes line if sight.

We wouldn't actually need to know any of those things because the radial diameter of Tabby's Star and the surrounding system is so infinitesimally small that a dimming event of any object "behind" that system would be impossible to separate from signal noise. If we were able to image the star with that kind of resolution, we could just as easily photograph whatever it was that passed in front of it and end the debate altogether.

Once we know the angle that Kepler observed the dims of KIC 8462 we would be able to get a better picture of which stars the possibly large swarm of comets passed across...

No, because the comets wouldn't cross any stars other than Tabby's from pretty much ANY angle. Not with the radial diameters we're talking about. It's possible the comet bodies would eventually move far enough away from the star's glare for that to be a meaningful measure, but again, there isn't a telescope in existence sensitive enough to detect that event.

To be 100% clear: you're talking about observing the occultation of a distant star by an exoplanet or exocomet body. There is not a telescope in existence sensitive enough to even make the attempt, especially for an object at interstellar distances whose orbital parameters we do not actually know.

 

[Dryson]

I was driving to work this morning and drive through some rhin and thick fog that caused an increase in the brightness of my headlights closer to me because of the reflection of the light off of the gas particles of the fog.

From further down the road I noticed that I could see the fig ahead of me as the cars headlights reflected off of the fog in the same manner as mine.

If comets would have been present in a large swarm large enough to cause a 15% and 22% dim I think that an increase in light would have been present within a few days as soon as the large swarm of comets entered into sublimation.

The interesting question is what caused the mirrored dim and,increase on either side of the 15% dim?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I'm so glad you have a job.

 

[publiusr]

I am an expert on the Dunning-Kruger effect,

I've only see Robert England play the latter. I think Dunning was left on the cutting room floor.

 

[Dryson]

I would like to propose an art contest titled "Thoughts of KIC 8462".
This contest will not have any prizes but will be hand drawn or painted or computer generated artwork by members of Trek BBS based on what they think might be taking place at KIC 8462.

The artwork can be based on sci-fi or real science. Let your imagination take hold.

The artwork must be your own though.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Frankly, I couldn't be arsed even if I had an imagination. By the way, why do you drop the final "852" from the catalogue number? Is that an artistic statement in itself?

 

[Dryson]

Light Chart G shows a relative calm state of KIC 8462 starting at day 450 and ending at day 1175. During these 725 days there is little activity on the surface of KIC compared to days 0 to 450 and days 1175 to 1600 where there much more activity taking place. The only major activity is the dim of 15% at day 780 with slight activity taking place approximately 200 days prior to the 15% dim that lasted for 200 days. Looking at the dims prior to the 15% dim and the dims that came after the 15% that a large swarm of comets could not be responsible for the dims otherwise the swarm of comets would have created a consistent dim across KIC for the entirety of the 1600 days. With the consistent dims taking place prior to the 15% a planetary infrastructure is most likely present with planets ranging in size from Super Giants causing the 22% dim to Near Earth Sized and smaller planets causing the smaller dims. Planets with possible gaseous clouds orbiting the planets or a large gas cloud present in the system of KIC that causes continual light curve fluctuations of KIC 8462.

American Astronomical Society revises its Code of Ethics - http://aas.org/files/aas_ethics_statement_majrev5.0.pdf

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Are you a member of the AAS? I'm not.

The following blogs model the dips in brightness as a being due to a swarm of objects or a diffuse cloud and try to explain why the dimming profile is unlikely to be due to comets.

KIC 8462852: Models of transits
The real reason why the KIC 8462852 comet hypothesis is dead

 

[TheFlutteringHorde]

I would like to propose an art contest titled "Thoughts of KIC 8462".
This contest will not have any prizes but will be hand drawn or painted or computer generated artwork by members of Trek BBS based on what they think might be taking place at KIC 8462.

The artwork can be based on sci-fi or real science. Let your imagination take hold.

The artwork must be your own though.

Done.

 

[Dryson]

References

Bradley E. Schaefer, 2016. KIC 8462852 Faded at an Average Rate of 0.165+-0.013 Magnitudes Per Century From 1890 To 1989. arXiv:1601.03256.

Is cited in the article relating to why the comet theory is dead. Yet no one here took his findings seriously.

Based on scientific data of those who study stars the fact of something being different with KIC 8462 is not up for question as the data has already plainly shown KIC 8462 to be a normal F type main star.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIC_8462852

I was reading the Flux Article that is a child of the parent article and came across this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_flux

Longwave Radiation Flux - Longwave flux is a product of both downwelling infrared energy as well as emission by the underlying surface. The cooling associated with the divergence of longwave radiation is necessary for creating and sustaining lasting inversion layers close to the surface during polar night. Longwave radiation flux divergence also plays a role in the formation of fog.

Could KIC 8462 actually be creating its own fog around itself thus causing the light emitted to curve drastically as we have seen?

The nest step would be to investigate which particles that when interacting with Longwave Radiation Flux would create a fog that would block out a certain percentage of the light from KIC 8462.

Another thought could be that if KIC 8462 has the ability to collapse into a black hole then perhaps the light curve of KIC 8462 is indicative of the process of a sun at the beginning of a collapse into a black hole where the fuel is in the early stages of depletion.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Bradley E. Schaefer, 2016. KIC 8462852 Faded at an Average Rate of 0.165+-0.013 Magnitudes Per Century From 1890 To 1989. arXiv:1601.03256.

Is cited in the article relating to why the comet theory is dead. Yet no one here took his findings seriously.

Particularly Michael Hippke, who correctly expands on Schaeffer's research and uses additional filters to analyze the data to determine that Schaeffer's technique is flawed. Schaeffer actually wrote an angry-sounding rebuttal to Hippke's paper that said:

So Hippke’s choice of running to reporters before the paper appeared publicly, and disdaining any experienced advice despite being a self-proclaimed “novice”, is not good science.

Which is a kind of amazing statement since
1) That is exactly what Schaeffer himself did, appearing on CNN to get his research into the headlines a couple of days before his paper was even posted (and he never did get around to submitting it to an actual scientific journal, which arXiv is not)
2) The five co-authors of this paper ARE experts on this field, which Schaeffer (presumably) knows only too well, but he's focussing on Hippke with personal attacks, apparently because Hippke was the only one who responded to his outrage at having his findings contradicted.

In short: the Butthurt is strong with this one.

Could KIC 8462 actually be creating its own fog around itself thus causing the light emitted to curve drastically as we have seen?

No.

Another thought could be that if KIC 8462 has the ability to collapse into a black hole

It doesn't. Too small for that.

 

[PurpleBuddha]

That needs to be turned into a Big Bang Theory episode...or did they already do one like that?