dswynne1 wasn't the one who originally brought up a news outlet in connection with racism.Sure, this is on topic.
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TUC - not aged well
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Maybe not, but he's the one who had a post that was solely about that and not the topic at hand.
I don't really get the concept of films aging well/badly, I think it's rare for films in general and especially sci fi films to be regarded really differently a long time after their release. I don't see how or why that would happen unless the film's apparent quality always depended mostly on shock value (TUC and FC did somewhat but that's hardly all of why they're good) or you feel that films or genre films are generally getting better over time and so expectations also increase.
Hmh? From where I'm looking, each decade of making Westerns has been considered quite distinct from any other, and making 1950s or 1970s Westerns today would definitely be considered "dated" - both because it's already been done, and because directors and critics today look down on all past Western decades for the (gradually lifting) lack of courage/leeway in storytelling. Do westerns get better? They certainly get less formulaic or censored, and there's no going back (except for deliberate parody value).
Is this the same as saying that "Stagecoach" or "Rio Bravo" has aged badly? The way of storytelling used there has, and people do cringe at some things said and done in those films. But they're certainly regarded as good period pieces (for the 1930s and 50s, that is, not for the 19th century they depict). Do they elicit more or less cringing than the putative average? Hard to tell. But that I guess would be the definition of aging badly or well.
Timo Saloniemi
Is this the same as saying that "Stagecoach" or "Rio Bravo" has aged badly? The way of storytelling used there has, and people do cringe at some things said and done in those films. But they're certainly regarded as good period pieces (for the 1930s and 50s, that is, not for the 19th century they depict). Do they elicit more or less cringing than the putative average? Hard to tell. But that I guess would be the definition of aging badly or well.
Timo Saloniemi
Exactly - you have to do True Grit instead of Rio Bravo to cut it today. Western is not going away, but it's not going back, either.
As for scifi, well, Star Wars is back. Essentially unchanged. What does that say about how well or badly the original movie has aged? Critics seem to rather universally condemn the total lack of imagination or novelty value in the latest installment, but that's sort of beside the point.
Timo Saloniemi
As for scifi, well, Star Wars is back. Essentially unchanged. What does that say about how well or badly the original movie has aged? Critics seem to rather universally condemn the total lack of imagination or novelty value in the latest installment, but that's sort of beside the point.
Timo Saloniemi
VI doesn't age well because that film didn't have the budget of the other films; it did have an identical budget of V but adjusted for inflation it was lower. So the bridge had to be redressed, and the production team had to borrow TNG sets which were cheap sets to begin with for syndication purposes. Film stock was cheaper than the stock used for the other films so there's more grain in the film; Meyer decided to use super 35 mm instead of traditional high stock 35mm film where aspect ratios were manipulated.
When CBS/ Paramount remastered the 6 films, 4 of the films looked great to me, but V and VI doesn't look good at all. Budget had a lot to do with that.
The peptobismal Klingon blood looks ridiculous, and I'm not sure if the process of the scenes work. Chekov gets a sample of the blood, which is pink, and Spock analyses it and says,"Klingon blood", as if to say their are other species have pink blood??? It would've worked better if the blood was red, so it supports Spock findings. No need to look through the microscope if we know the Klingons have pink blood, but maybe Spock didn't know--which is a stretch since he had a long history dealing with Klingons.
When CBS/ Paramount remastered the 6 films, 4 of the films looked great to me, but V and VI doesn't look good at all. Budget had a lot to do with that.
The peptobismal Klingon blood looks ridiculous, and I'm not sure if the process of the scenes work. Chekov gets a sample of the blood, which is pink, and Spock analyses it and says,"Klingon blood", as if to say their are other species have pink blood??? It would've worked better if the blood was red, so it supports Spock findings. No need to look through the microscope if we know the Klingons have pink blood, but maybe Spock didn't know--which is a stretch since he had a long history dealing with Klingons.
That has nothing to do with the budget of the movies, that has to do with the blu-ray transfer that Paramount put out. As far as cinematography, I think The Final Frontier has some of the best in the first six films. If there was one area Shatner managed to get his desired Lawrence of Arabia feel, it was in the cinematography.
You do know the TNG sets were originally built for Phase II in 1977, then were redressed to be brought up to Robert Wise's standards, and to hold up against 35mm film resolution, don't you? Every Star Trek film has redressed sets, VI doing it was no different.
What are you referring to when you say "high stock" film? The decision to use Super 35 rather than Panavision was not a budgetary one, IIRC. That was a choice made by Nick Meyer and cinematographer Hiro Narita.
The pink blood was a requirement of the MPAA to avoid the film getting a PG-13 or R rating. Besides, why would non-human species have iron-based blood anyways? With a myriad of species serving onboard the Enterprise, it's highly likely there's different colored blood. Plus, the CMO was kinda in prison at the time of the investigation, so the man would would know most about non-Terran hemoglobin wasn't available. Additionally, since Spock was carrying out an official investigation, it would be necessary to confirm the type of blood. When Kirk and McCoy's lives hang in the balance, there's no room for guessing.
I still say the Klingon blood was pink because of radiation from Praxis. At least in-universe it was.
"Jim, I don't even know the anatomy!"
All films reflect the time they were made and filmmakers generally don't want to do an already-done style but that doesn't mean the older styles are worse and are widely looked-down upon; censorship restraints and formula are flaws but not necessarily worse flaws than the ones existing today (and it can take great talent to overcome forced limitations of the past). I think most filmmakers and many viewers consider Stagecoach (edit: or The Searchers) a great film that still mostly works in the present, at least equal to most of even the good Westerns made today.
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It was supposed to be Saavik, and she would have a *ton* of reasons to hate the Klingons, PLUS she's half Romulan.
Well except that she isn't - at least not in any version actually shown to audiences.
And what difference should her being half Romulan make? The two species aren't supposed to be that different in the first place. And out of the two, it's the Romulans who manage to have a society without having to resort to suppressing their emotions behind a logic-worshipping religion - they are the ones who would have it easier to control the supposed warlike urges of the Vulcanoid stock.
Saavik/Valeris would have been raised to be a Fed in any case. Biology wouldn't feature much in the way she thinks.
OTOH, as discussed, having a war sounds like a logical way to deal with the Klingons. Especially if it's a war that's going to be won by Christmas, by the good guys. Whether it's logical to believe in that is something for the Jack Pack to judge, but it doesn't sound all that unlikely.
Timo Saloniemi
Saavik/Valeris would have been raised to be a Fed in any case. Biology wouldn't feature much in the way she thinks.
OTOH, as discussed, having a war sounds like a logical way to deal with the Klingons. Especially if it's a war that's going to be won by Christmas, by the good guys. Whether it's logical to believe in that is something for the Jack Pack to judge, but it doesn't sound all that unlikely.
Timo Saloniemi
The Romulan half would be more likely to give into the hate, the need for revenge, the emotional loss.... Romulans would be *easier* to control warlike urges? Are we even talking about the same show? Agree to disagree.
None of the TV cuts or Directors cuts put back in the Romulan reference? Regardless, its something that has always been known... using Saavik instead of Valeris would have wrapped up a complete multi part story arc spread across the TOS movies, and that would have been quite satisfying to me.
None of the TV cuts or Directors cuts put back in the Romulan reference? Regardless, its something that has always been known... using Saavik instead of Valeris would have wrapped up a complete multi part story arc spread across the TOS movies, and that would have been quite satisfying to me.
Well, neither Vulcans nor Romulans are constantly fighting nowadays, despite that stuff supposedly being in their blood. But Vulcans only manage that by becoming total monks. Romulans simply don't seem to need all that much effort there.
OTOH, if a Vulcan wanted to express hate, revenge, loss, he'd just express his ice-cold hate by exacting logical revenge to satisfy his well-rationalized need to cope with loss. Vulcans think murder is something to be done logically, rather than something to be avoided, after all.
Timo Saloniemi
TUC went out of its way to portray the characters as incompetent in one way or another.
McCoy doesn't know the anatomy of their "enemy," despite having used his little scanner to detect a Klingon agent in the original series.
Uhura doesn't know the language of the "enemy," despite being the chief communications officer who has had to decrypt code all her career.
And Chekov is just an idiot to make Valeris look better.
McCoy never touched a Klingon in the original series. He knows what their heart rate is supposed to be like, but that's pretty much it.
Uhura never knew any foreign languages other than English in the original series. She never decrypted a code in her life, either, as far as we know (other than by pressing the "decrypt Code Two" button on her board, that is).
And Chekov... Well, there's consistency there, too.
Timo Saloniemi
Uhura never knew any foreign languages other than English in the original series. She never decrypted a code in her life, either, as far as we know (other than by pressing the "decrypt Code Two" button on her board, that is).
And Chekov... Well, there's consistency there, too.
Timo Saloniemi
I'd imagine that McCoy knew the basics about Klingons (thereby helping him ID Darvin as one in "The Trouble With Tribbles"), but I don't find it a stretch that he still wouldn't know a great deal about them. And he certainly wouldn't know enough to perform impromptu trauma surgery on one. That's like asking a veterinarian to work in a human ER. He might have enough basic knowledge to muddle through, but he'd be in big trouble if he had to do anything too demanding.
Honestly, I'm much more bothered by McCoy not knowing anything about how to treat a Vulcan in various TOS episodes. C'mon, dude, there's only one of them aboard the ship, and he's the first officer, to boot! Learn some stuff!
Yeah, the Uhura thing is a bit of a stretch, but it was a funny gag, so I just go with it. Again, I just assume that we were at the limits of her knowledge.
Chekov... I got nothing. I guess we know why he went from security chief back to navigator now (or was he helmsman in TUC? I forget).
Honestly, I'm much more bothered by McCoy not knowing anything about how to treat a Vulcan in various TOS episodes. C'mon, dude, there's only one of them aboard the ship, and he's the first officer, to boot! Learn some stuff!
Yeah, the Uhura thing is a bit of a stretch, but it was a funny gag, so I just go with it. Again, I just assume that we were at the limits of her knowledge.
Chekov... I got nothing. I guess we know why he went from security chief back to navigator now (or was he helmsman in TUC? I forget).
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