Oh, Supergirl is absolutely feminist propaganda. That's part of what I love about it. 
Spoilers Supergirl - Season 1
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Oh, Supergirl is absolutely feminist propaganda. That's part of what I love about it.
Why? Could you elaborate?
It's about the only thing I love it. And the only reason I still watch it.Oh, Supergirl is absolutely feminist propaganda. That's part of what I love about it.
I keeping hoping it'll get better, but I continue to be disappointed each week. The only reason I'm still tuning in is because Cat and Kara are such great characters.
It's a nice change of pace from other shows on tv, that's for sure.Oh, Supergirl is absolutely feminist propaganda. That's part of what I love about it.
But what is feminist about it?
If I see it in a nasty way I can't find much: Supergirl is following the orders of a male superior (which turned out to be alien but still) and Kara Danvers has a typical girljob - being an assistent. Her sister has the high position because her boss has promised her father to keep an eye on her (or so). Even the boss Cat gained her position with a cliche girl thing: gossip.
So to me it's neutral but I'd like to hear someone else's perspective on it.
If I see it in a nasty way I can't find much: Supergirl is following the orders of a male superior (which turned out to be alien but still) and Kara Danvers has a typical girljob - being an assistent. Her sister has the high position because her boss has promised her father to keep an eye on her (or so). Even the boss Cat gained her position with a cliche girl thing: gossip.
So to me it's neutral but I'd like to hear someone else's perspective on it.
To enjoy pretty much anything on TV, I have to lower my expectations.
They definitely don't make 'em like they used to.
When you put it that way, then yeah, it's not real feminist is it?
Well I said it was a nasty view. But everybody can see it the way they want. Actually I'm really curious.
I've read on imdb from a father who wrote how much his daughter loves it and identifies with Kara and I think it's a great show for that. Also the women in this show are not reduced to objects like they are in other shows - you can say that this is a different approach too. At least I didn't have the impression but I may be wrong, I'm not the target audience when it comes to that.
Practically every word out of Cat's mouth, for one thing. And the fact that it's a Supergirl show that isn't a spinoff of a pre-existing Superman show. The fact that it has a female showrunner and several other women in producing, writing, and directing roles doesn't hurt either.
So? Feminism doesn't mean men have to be reduced to second-class status -- it means valuing equality and a system where position is based on merit instead of gender. It means wanting a world where men and women work together with mutual respect, and all that matters is who someone is as an individual rather than what they have in their... chromosomes.
Besides, Kara doesn't work for Hank, she works with him. She's under no obligation to follow his orders and has frequently gone against his wishes. She's more a freelance consultant for the DEO than an employee.
So? Talking about feminine things as if they were somehow shameful is itself misogynistic. Equality doesn't mean women have to limit themselves to traditionally masculine roles and values and behaviors. It means recognizing that "girly" things have as much value as "manly" things -- regardless of the gender of the people who embrace them.
And assistants are important. The assumption that being a helper is an inferior role is itself one of the toxic myths of patriarchal society that need to be overcome if equality is to be achieved. Helping others is a valuable and powerful thing in its own right. Nobody in power could accomplish anything without assistants. And a job as an assistant is a stepping stone to something more. It's not like Kara is just working until she can bag a husband and become a housewife. She's chosen to apprentice under a successful, powerful woman as the foundation of her own future career.
And yes, Cat Grant started out as the Daily Planet gossip columnist, but she's gone far beyond that to become "the Queen of All Media." She began in a traditionally feminine field because that's what was available to her a couple of decades ago, but she pushed against the gendered limitations on her career and transcended them, becoming a media mogul in her own right and shepherding other women into positions of prominence as well. As James said this week, something like 80 percent of Catco subsidiaries have female CEOs.
Well I said it was a nasty view. But everybody can see it the way they want. Actually I'm really curious.
I've read on imdb from a father who wrote how much his daughter loves it and identifies with Kara and I think it's a great show for that. Also the women in this show are not reduced to objects like they are in other shows - you can say that this is a different approach too. At least I didn't have the impression but I may be wrong, I'm not the target audience when it comes to that.
How about we say it's steps in the right direction? I would prefer Kara had a better job (Working for a man might not be feminist, but J'Onn Henshaw would be a damn sight better boss than Cat Grant), and would prefer less of the romantic entanglement nonsense (concerning her and her sister), but lets face it: The show's being run by guys. Try as they might, Berlanti and Kreisberg will never run a perfectly feminist show because guys can't be perfectly feminist.
In the imdb comments the word "feminist" was only used by very conservative persons and not in a nice way. "I don't watch Supergirl because it doesn't represent my christian values grumpy grumpy grumpy" etc. pp.
@Christopher: What you wrote are valid points. Again, what I wrote was a little sarcastic but I know some women who tell me exactly that what I wrote.
Yes, I agree to that too though it would be interesting to see a show with a women imitating a male cliche of the 1970s. We'll get a female doctor (who) I'm sure. There they have made big villan "the Master" female and it works great.
@Admiral2: Yes, on a good way I certainly agree.
@Christopher: What you wrote are valid points. Again, what I wrote was a little sarcastic but I know some women who tell me exactly that what I wrote.
Yes, I agree to that too though it would be interesting to see a show with a women imitating a male cliche of the 1970s. We'll get a female doctor (who) I'm sure. There they have made big villan "the Master" female and it works great.
@Admiral2: Yes, on a good way I certainly agree.
Kara might be an assistant, but it's to one of the most powerful women in the city, so I think that makes it just a bit different.
Either way though, this idea that it's somehow "liberal propaganda" or "too political" for a show to champion the cause of women or point out the very real inequality and sexist attitudes that continue to exist in society, just seems utterly bizarre to me.
Either way though, this idea that it's somehow "liberal propaganda" or "too political" for a show to champion the cause of women or point out the very real inequality and sexist attitudes that continue to exist in society, just seems utterly bizarre to me.
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It's amazing what people want to see in a show. I guess it's a matter of perspective. I don't see any religious undertones in the show, but them I really don't look for any.
Yes, bizarre. Another thought came to mind: We've seen 10 episodes I think. Let's see where things go.
Is Cat a new invention or is she in the comics somewhere?
You have noticed that some people there have sexual interc***** without a proper marriage certificate, haven't you? And the clothes they wear. That is not how TV should be.
Is Cat a new invention or is she in the comics somewhere?
You have noticed that some people there have sexual interc***** without a proper marriage certificate, haven't you? And the clothes they wear. That is not how TV should be.
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about, so I'll just say ok.
What religious undertones are people seeing?
Like I said. There are a lot of people who find the most normal things insulting out of religious reasons. "Sex before marriage" is enough for some groups to forbid their children to watch it. They are the minority of course. In 2005 when doctor who was continued a lot of fans spoke of a "gay agenda" of the show and not only hardcore religious fans, a view that I didn't share (in case someone misunderstands).
I was referring to this comment up thread:
In the imdb comments the word "feminist" was only used by very conservative persons and not in a nice way. "I don't watch Supergirl because it doesn't represent my christian values grumpy grumpy grumpy" etc. pp.
In the imdb comments the word "feminist" was only used by very conservative persons and not in a nice way. "I don't watch Supergirl because it doesn't represent my christian values grumpy grumpy grumpy" etc. pp.
Certainly people like that have tried to paint "feminist" as a dirty word in order to take control of the narrative and discredit the side they don't agree with, but that's not what the word means at all. They don't have a monopoly on defining the vocabulary.
Oh, we had plenty of those in past decades -- female characters who were portrayed as "strong" by making them hyper-macho, "unsexing" them as Lady Macbeth put it. Luckily we've outgrown that now and are able to have characters who are both strong and unapologetically feminine, like Kara and Cat. That's what I love about this show. Kara is so sweet and girlish and lovable, but she's also a total badass fighter, and that isn't treated as a contradiction in any way.
In any case, Superman started out as an emphatically political, progressive work. Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster were the sons of poor Jewish immigrants, and their goal was to create a character who had the power to rule the world but who chose instead to use his power to protect the innocent against exploiters of all kinds, from corrupt slum lords to arms dealers fomenting war for the sake of profit to abusive husbands. The Superman radio series in the wake of WWII was intensely political, with most of its stories involving the fight against racist, religiously intolerant, and anti-immigrant movements or corrupt politicians and fifth columnists who fomented racial and religious strife to weaken America by turning its peoples against each other.
More generally, comics have often been political. Superheroes often tend to be maintainers of the status quo, but they're also champions of justice, and that often means taking a stand against intolerance, inequality, and corruption. Captain America took a stand against Hitler at a time when that was still controversial in the US, and since then has taken on a lot of America's imperfections such as racism and political corruption. His partner the Falcon was the first African-American superhero in mainstream comics (Black Panther preceded him, but was African, not American). The X-Men have always been an allegory for bigotry and persecution, whether the religious persecution that Lee and Kirby grew up facing or the racial strife that was a hot-button issue in the comic's early years or the gay-rights struggle that the X-Men movies use as subtext. The original Wonder Woman comics were emphatically feminist and activist, although they were subsumed into the reactionary view of traditional gender roles that came to dominate America in the '50s and early '60s. Certainly there have been times when comics have been pressured to be safe and conventional, but that pressure has been a reaction to the times when they've been overtly political and ideological.
Cat Grant was created by Marv Wolfman and Jerry Ordway in 1987, introduced to the comics as a romantic interest for Clark to serve as a rival for Lois (to balance out Lois having Clark and Superman as "rivals" for her affections). She appeared in the first season of Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman played by Tracy Scoggins, and Smallville oddly featured two different characters using her name, a one-shot character in season 9 and a recurring character in season 10, a Daily Planet reporter with an anti-superhero agenda. Cat also appeared as a recurring talking-head TV reporter on the Young Justice animated series.