Spoilers Supergirl - Season 1

[USS Triumphant]

On a side note, when dad got his job, wouldn't he have signed a contract stating that anything he develops belongs to the company?

Generally, I would think yes, but it depends on the circumstances. Winn said something at one point about his dad having a company, too. Maybe the contract was that anything he developed during the hours they paid him for was theirs, anything in his own time was his. Seems like it would be hard to keep a thumb on - an argument could be made about when he was conceptualizing any given toy - but I've seen similar arrangements work alright in the real world.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Hank states that he's been around for 50 years. Interesting. I wonder if any Golden Age-type flashbacks will be explored.

It would be nice if they were setting up for a crossover set in the past, for DC Legends (since that show will involve time travel, and maybe world hopping?). CBS might be understandably unhappy about allowing a crossover for their title character on another network - but maybe they would allow an auxiliary character like the Martian Manhunter to roam a little?

Sorry for the double post. I had to rewrite the above, because for some reason the board ate that half of my multi-quote in the original. Weird.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The Toyman stuff didn't do much for me. I think Jeremy Jordan did some good acting, but the character of Winn just doesn't quite work as well as the other characters.

I have a feeling Toyman is merely a springboard for Winn to become corrupt. Aside from the overstated similarity between father and son throughout the episode, Winn being rejected for his feelings for Kara (and his angry attack on her for not being able to have a normal relationship several episodes ago) seems like a set-up. Whether that means he will try to hurt her in direct manner, or through those she cares about (e.g. James or Alex) is up in the air.

Perhaps he will be recruited by Lord, who could use another insider in in his anti-Kryptonian campaign..

I guess the best part was the resonance between Kara and Winn both losing their worlds as teenagers.

There's no correlation between losing parents to death and a parent being a criminal who ends up in jail. On the loss note, Kara has more in common with James, since his father died when he was young.

The hyperaggressiveness of Emma Caulfield's FBI character was kind of weird -- you don't rain down a hail of bullets on an unarmed man just because he doesn't put his hands up.

Don't rock the "girl power"/"asskicker" boat, Christopher.

Three, putting a wall of ice between a bunch of explosives and a crowd of civilians might make things worse, what with all the sharp fragments of shattered ice flying through the air. Really, this was the most ill-conceived super-action sequence the show has done. If she saw that Toyman was in the basement using a tablet to control the bombs, why not just smash through the floor, grab the tablet, and shut them down?

Because a superhero show needs a "super" stunt per episode. Yes, it was instantly unbelievable, but there would be no "wow" factor for Supergirl to zip into the basement and disarm Toyman.

This is the same collection of shows that also had someone freeze laser beams and then pluck them out of the air like icicles. Believability left the stage ages ago.

Yep.

I also have a hard time believing Alex would be so careless as to let Max plant a camera on her purse.

I pointed that out last night. It is not to be believes, since she was on a mission to distract someone she believes is a threat. Her failure to notice this deflated all of her self-shoulder patting about her ability to read people (to Supergirl) in one scene.

 

[Admiral2]

It took me several moments, because I'm not great with faces. I didn't recognize her until her second scene, when Winn called her name to tell her about the jester doll and she turned her head. And then it took me a moment to remember where I'd seen her before and what her name was.

I just paid attention to the guest star credits after the opening commercial...

 

[Morpheus 02]

The hyperaggressiveness of Emma Caulfield's FBI character was kind of weird -- you don't rain down a hail of bullets on an unarmed man just because he doesn't put his hands up.

If he was a black man in Chicago...

And in this case, they could've made a case for it... Winn is the son of a known murderer, and looked like he was going through with it.


----


Oh, and I agree with everyone about how crazy the "solution" was -- freezing the water, which should have hurts dozens if not hundreds of people.


I really feel for WInn...he's really hurting. I hope they don't make him bad. It'd be interesting if they do wind up pairing Winn & Kara. It might feel like a reversal of Ollie-Felicity on Arrow...but this one would make sense

 

[Christopher]

If he was a black man in Chicago...

Good point. Or here in Cincinnati, just a couple of blocks from my apartment. But that wasn't an issue here. Not only was Toyman white, but I think this show will probably limit itself to addressing anti-alien racism.

And in this case, they could've made a case for it... Winn is the son of a known murderer, and looked like he was going through with it.

I'm not talking about the ending, since Winn was armed at that point. I'm talking about the scene where Winn first met the simulacrum of his father. The fake Toyman was just standing there, unarmed. The FBI team barged in and ordered him to raise his hands. He kept his hands down, but made no threatening moves of any kind. Agent Chase said "Subject is noncompliant, open fire!" And they unleashed a hail of bullets on a guy who was just standing with his hands at his sides. I was expecting Chase to turn out to have some hidden agenda, some devious reason for wanting Toyman killed. But it was just a random, nonsensical plot point.

Another weird bit: Why did Winn need to convince Chase to let Kara tag along to that meeting? Why couldn't Kara have just shown up as Supergirl and offered her help? Supergirl would have a more plausible reason to be there than Kara Danvers. Particularly on this show, where the superhero spends so much more time in costume than most of her live-action counterparts.

 

[Commander Richard]

I saw Emma Caulfield's name in the credits then I forgot about her and didn't recognize her. Feels like I missed her because I wasn't watching her character with her in mind.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

So when will Emma Caulfield start aging?

 

[Commander Richard]

We must have different cultural referents for bad guys, because that pretty much is a typical bad guy in the DC Animated Universe. Tons of villains in Batman: TAS and Superman: TAS, including Toyman, were wronged people who snapped and tried to kill the entitled or corrupt people who wronged them.

I suppose, but this episode really stood out for some reason.

 

[davejames]

Gotta say, that was a much darker episode than I was expecting for something featuring the Toy Man! I know I've been kind of wanting the show to get a bit darker and more serious, but this is one time when I actually would have loved to see them have some more fun with the villain and his crazy and outlandish toys.

And I know it's been in the cards since the beginning, but I'm really going to be bummed if this is the last we see of the fun and jokey Winn. I really loved what the character brought to the team before, and was hoping the writers would have at least waited til later in the series before blowing all that up.

And as for some of the superfeats in this episode, I agree they were a bit more unbelievable than usual, but I'm willing to forgive that because they still seemed like some pretty fun and creative solutions, and they show Kara applying a bit more ingenuity than she did before.

 

[Marc]

Noticed they have given themselves are a reason for not having Hank to turn in Jon Jonz every-time by saying he does it too much the change will become permanent.

 

[JD]

Another weird bit: Why did Winn need to convince Chase to let Kara tag along to that meeting? Why couldn't Kara have just shown up as Supergirl and offered her help? Supergirl would have a more plausible reason to be there than Kara Danvers. Particularly on this show, where the superhero spends so much more time in costume than most of her live-action counterparts.

I was kind of confused by that too. There was really no reason she couldn't have shown up as Supergirl from the beginning there.

I saw Emma Caulfield's name in the credits then I forgot about her and didn't recognize her. Feels like I missed her because I wasn't watching her character with her in mind.

It was the same for me. I saw her name in the credits, but I didn't realize she was the FBI agent.
This one gave us some good backstory stuff for Winn. I thought they did a good job making a villain who could have been jokey and cheesy into a a menacing bad guy.
I got a big kick out of Kara and Jon flying together in the beginning.
I really hope they don't have Winn go bad. It seemed to me that the whole last scene with him and Kara was about his determination not to go bad, so I'd really hate to see them go against that.
I do agree it is a little hard to believe that Alex or the DEO wouldn't have noticed the camera Lord planted. I was really surprised they had him discovering Kara's identity so early, it'll bery interesting to see where that goes. I'm thinking he's either going to forget or be convinced he was mistaken, or he'll be gone after this season.
I liked getting to see J'onn J'onzz use some of his other powers. I wonder if we'll ever see him eating Oreos, it would be perfect product placement.
I don't mind Lucy going to work at CatCo. The relationship stuff doesn't bother me, and I like to character so I'm happy to see more of her.

 

[Admiral2]

Good point. Or here in Cincinnati, just a couple of blocks from my apartment. But that wasn't an issue here. Not only was Toyman white, but I think this show will probably limit itself to addressing anti-alien racism.



I'm not talking about the ending, since Winn was armed at that point. I'm talking about the scene where Winn first met the simulacrum of his father. The fake Toyman was just standing there, unarmed. The FBI team barged in and ordered him to raise his hands. He kept his hands down, but made no threatening moves of any kind. Agent Chase said "Subject is noncompliant, open fire!" And they unleashed a hail of bullets on a guy who was just standing with his hands at his sides. I was expecting Chase to turn out to have some hidden agenda, some devious reason for wanting Toyman killed. But it was just a random, nonsensical plot point.

In the Feebs' defense: The point of getting a suspect to raise his hands is to show he's not hiding anything that he can use to hurt the officers with, and in this case we're talking about an escaped convict who manages to kill people with toys. With his hands at his sides he could be hiding any kind of small weapon or remote from view. By refusing to comply he turned potential police overkill into a justified shooting. The fact that you didn't observe any threatening moves doesn't automatically mean he wasn't a threat. Cops assume you're a threat until you start doing what they say.

 

[Christopher]

I do agree it is a little hard to believe that Alex or the DEO wouldn't have noticed the camera Lord planted. I was really surprised they had him discovering Kara's identity so early, it'll bery interesting to see where that goes. I'm thinking he's either going to forget or be convinced he was mistaken, or he'll be gone after this season.

Although it's not uncommon in Berlanti shows for the villains to know the heroes' identity. Malcolm Merlyn, Slade Wilson, Harrison Wells... it's a recurring thing.

By the way, remember last week, after Kara had found out that Hank was J'onn and was demanding to know why they hadn't told her before? She said "I can keep a secret!" and Alex and "Hank" both shook their heads and said "No, you can't!" I realized on my second viewing that that was an in-joke to how she gave her secret away to Winn at the first opportunity, and maybe more broadly to how bad Berlanti-produced superheroes are at protecting their secret identities.

I don't mind Lucy going to work at CatCo. The relationship stuff doesn't bother me, and I like to character so I'm happy to see more of her.

She's also damn gorgeous, so I'm happy to see more of her. Hmm... This is the second time Cat has told Lucy that she was the prettier sister. Is Cat flirting with her? Ohh, the Kara-Cat shippers will be so disappointed...

 

[Thestral]

I actually really liked the sprinkler-freeze scene. Possible real-world problems aside, it was a very creative use of Kara's powers and quick thinking on her part. Plus it looked really... cool. Also, 3 times in this episode super-breath saved the day - not bad for the most derided power in the set!

Otherwise a really strong episode overall I felt. Things with Winn just got insanely complicated, but damn it was well done by all the players. I hope he doesn't go bad - I don't think he will, the whole point with him opening up and being honest with Kara was to keep from being like his father, keeping it all bottled up until it explodes.

Hank is a pretty sad/cynical version of J'onn - for good reason, but hopefully part of his interaction with Kara will help him become more at peace with what he can do and willing to use it in a positive way. Loved his turn as "Max."

Hmm... This is the second time Cat has told Lucy that she was the prettier sister. Is Cat flirting with her? Ohh, the Kara-Cat shippers will be so disappointed...

I'd say you're definitely overthinking it. Lois is her major rival and she's looking to hire Lucy.

(Although thinking of her bitterness towards Lois: she's an amazingly successful woman heading a media empire and it sounds like Lois is still a reporter, if a senior one. Never let it be said Cat Grant doesn't hold a grudge.)

Also, in reading up about Toyman I stumbled upon a possible future complication in Kara's relationship with Winn?

Spoiler

Apparently at one point in the comics Schott kills Cat Grant's son Adam. Who is coming to the show as a possible love interest for Kara, right? Now maybe Comics Adam is a kid while this one is an adult, and we already briefly put her son Carter in trouble. But... maybe somethime down the road or not too far even, Schott Sr. breaks out again and Adam is a victim?

 

[Christopher]

Hank is a pretty sad/cynical version of J'onn - for good reason, but hopefully part of his interaction with Kara will help him become more at peace with what he can do and willing to use it in a positive way.

His reluctance to use his powers is clearly meant to reduce the amount of CGI shapeshifting they have to do... and to deal with the fact that J'onn could potentially be more powerful than a Kryptonian if he really cut loose. But what's cool about it is that it lets them take the character in an interesting and dramatic direction at the same time. It just goes to show that limitations can help a story.

I also wonder if maybe he's reluctant to use his powers too openly for fear of attracting the attention of White Martians...

I'd say you're definitely overthinking it. Lois is her major rival and she's looking to hire Lucy.

Well, I wasn't really being serious. And overthinking things is the essence of shipping, after all. I've seen people ship Cat and Kara based purely on the scene of Kara taking her glasses off for Cat, since taking glasses off is often played as a romantic moment.

 

[Gryffindorian]

If you thought freezing the water was ridiculous, I thought her "super suck" power was absurd. I've never seen Superman do a reverse "super breath" to clear some poisonous gas from a room.

 

[davejames]

We've actually seen that superpower a lot, whether on the old 50s Superman or L&C or Superboy...

And I think even in one of the Superman movies, although I can't remember exactly where at the moment.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It was an enclosed space.

Super blowing would have just moved the gas to the other side of the room.

I've seen supersucking before, but super lung capacity aside, wen it's actually about compression.

 

[dahj]

I have a feeling Toyman is merely a springboard for Winn to become corrupt. Aside from the overstated similarity between father and son throughout the episode, Winn being rejected for his feelings for Kara (and his angry attack on her for not being able to have a normal relationship several episodes ago) seems like a set-up. Whether that means he will try to hurt her in direct manner, or through those she cares about (e.g. James or Alex) is up in the air.

Or he might just turn out to be a fairly decent human being, over the next few episodes come to terms with Kara not returning his feelings and rebuild the friendship on a more healthy foundation.
That's how I'd go about it anyways...