Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion (HERE THERE BE SPOILERS)
- Thread starter sttngfan1701d
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Well, okay then? Just don't expect others to agree or not point out the arrogance evident in having a man dismiss women's experiences like that and claim the phenomenon doesn't exist as a gender-related issue.
It's not really something either of us is going to lose sleep over, I'm sure. We'll just agree to disagree.
I'm not sure what all this has to do with calling Rey a Mary Sue, which is just a badly written character, in this case one who can do whatever random thing the plot demands. Kirk from ST09 also suffered from this same problem: Abrams rushes too much, so the character's abilities are not clearly explained, showing why they can do this or who they are clearly. The result is, Kirk goes from cadet to captain of the flagship after 2 hours of active duty, and Rey can do barrel rolls five seconds after flying a ship for the 1st time.
We all have different reactions. That's what makes discussions so fun.
. Read the whole article, but still not really seeing why she's not a Mary Sue. Because Mary Sue is sexist? Because we shouldn't criticize female characters, because there are badly written male characters as well?I just can't see the comparisons with Luke. Luke just wasn't really awesome at everything. Even more importantly, he had to put some work into becoming awesome at things. Admittedly this isn't the first time JJ Abrams decided a character shouldn't have to put any work into getting to be the super awesome hero.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-12-29/-the-force-awakens-has-a-perfection-problem
This article pretty much nailed how I felt about the characters.
"Second, and more important, he’s omitted the weaknesses that made the original characters so appealing: the genuine streak of nasty self-interest in Han Solo, Leia’s bullheaded arrogance, Kenobi’s wistful sense of being past his prime, Luke’s needy, whining sense of entitlement to greater things than he has gotten from the universe so true to actual teenage boys."
Although we can both agree Boyega was good, and I don't blame Daisy Ridley for any of her characters (lack of)faults. I think she did a good enough job working with what she was given.
I've seen variations of this in Disney's marketing of Rey, and as a description of so many female characters over my life, but isn't it odd we never market men as strong independent men? I mean rarely is strength considered some particularly interesting character trait. I know it's a standard description for heroines these days but every time I hear it, I basically think of this
"Sherlock Holmes gets to be brilliant, solitary, abrasive, Bohemian, whimsical, brave, sad, manipulative, neurotic, vain, untidy, fastidious, artistic, courteous, rude, a polymath genius. Female characters get to be Strong."
Poe brags that he's the best pilot in the galaxy and can fly anything even Kylo calls him the best pilot in the galaxy.
I don't think Mary Sues are badly written characters, they'er just Swiss Army knives for the writer or writers. Duncan Idaho became Frank Herbert's Mary Sue. I'm not qute it applies to Rey though, she has a function and use in the plot just as Poe and Finn do.
The sad thing is that unlike in the other two trilogies where we have three main characters to follow Han, Luke and Leia in OT, Anakin, Padme and Obi-Wan we don't quite have that here. Abrams had the same prioblem IMO getting the Kirk/Spock/McCoy relationship down as well.
What?? Everything about this post baffles me.
Poe hops in a TIE Fighter, having never flown one before, and at first clumsily bops around the hanger bay, then suddenly becomes an ace pilot in it. Personally it doesn't bother me. He's described as the best pilot in the galaxy, so he'll take a few minutes to learn how it handles and then he'll be good.
As for Rey, she has the innate Force skills and piloting ability of a Skywalker
As for Rey, she has the innate Force skills and piloting ability of a Skywalker
Well at least Rey had a powerful and mystical energy working within her the entire time. Kirk was just a rash and undisciplined cadet who made some lucky decisions that saved the day, and who was inexplicably promoted to captain afterwards.
And in any case, I fail to see how Rey starting out with a slightly higher proficiency with the Force early on makes her a "badly written character." Daisy does such a good job conveying her fear and anxiety throughout the film that I never got the sense she was some super powerful Jedi Master who was just going to camly stroll in and kick everyone's ass. And she clearly had to struggle at every step-- taking three tries for the mind trick to work, and being on the defense for the vast majority of the battle against an (injured) Kylo, until finally the Force kicks in and gives her the upper hand.
She was no super smart, invincible super woman in this movie by any means.
He always had a choice. How he was created is irrelevant. The manner of his creation, whatever it was, did not remove free will. The end result was just a high midichlorian count regardless of whether he was created by the Force or the Sith. And no one ever says "If Anakin was created by the Force it means he was predestined to go to the light side/didn't have a choice".
davejames said:
Except for the parts where he comes off as a pompous, smug dickhead. There's more to being adult than "no whining".
Poe hops in a TIE Fighter, having never flown one before, and at first clumsily bops around the hanger bay, then suddenly becomes an ace pilot in it. Personally it doesn't bother me. He's described as the best pilot in the galaxy, so he'll take a few minutes to learn how it handles and then he'll be good.
As for Rey, she has the innate Force skills and piloting ability of a Skywalker
Poe is an experienced pilot, and he flails about with an unfamiliar ship because he is tied down with a mooring line.
Rey has never seen the inside of a working ship before and immediately is an expert and out-flies two tie pilots.
It would've been fairly simple to just give Rey the gunning position and have Fin fly the ship. I'm not sure why they made Fin terrible at both flying AND gunning AND hand to hand combat, they could've distributed the skills a little better. Fin started to feel a bit like dead weight about the time he got his ass kicked by a stormtrooper.
Which brings up another point - the fact that Fin lasted longer in a lightsaber duel with Kylo Ren than he did against random trooper. How embarrassing!
It's a nitpick, but it's typical of Abrams - glossing over vital details & just doing whatever.
Presumptive and almost certainly wrong. Rey confirms to Finn that she is a pilot. Plus, it's later revealed that she has detailed knowledge of the modifications made to the Falcon while it was on Jakku. Unless it's assumed that she's lying to Finn (and there's no evidence to support that she's a liar), she clearly has piloting knowledge and experience, as well as knowledge and experience on the functions of the Falcon itself.
This is an incorrect statement. Unless crashing the ship into the ground and ground structures qualifies as "expert" status.
Exactly. Even if you ignore the extra detail supplied in the novel, the movie makes it pretty clear that she had already developed a pretty wide range of skills by that point, from piloting to knowledge of ship's mechanics to self-defense.
And her being so attuned to the Force probably only made those skills better.
A dickhead who still seemed to possess a basic sense of right and wrong for the most part, and who wanted to help and protect people and who had respect for most of the Jedi and soldiers he served with during the war.
At least from what I could see anyway. He might have had his weaker moments, but I still have a hard time seeing that Anakin completely turning on the Jedi as quickly as he seemed to.
Of course he still had free will but even early on something was different about Anakin. He had a predisposition even early on for the dark side. Remember he had no father. However he was created something must have been in the mix. Yeah Lucas even said part of the choice to go to the dark side had to be his but I think once the dark side fully took over Anakin became more ruthless and willing to kill. Anakins who creation was due to the Emperor and whatever good was in Anakin was from Shmi.
There is an article at Birth.Movies.Death about Rey's character. The author concludes the article by writing,
The full article is at:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12...ths-weaknesses-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens
Someone mentioned Kirk above. For the classic Kirk, he earned his command of the Enterprise by commanding a destroyer in a time of conflict. For the modern Kirk, he earned his command of the Enterprise because of connections. In the parlance of the 19th century, Kirk was a "political captain".
The full article is at:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12...ths-weaknesses-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens
Someone mentioned Kirk above. For the classic Kirk, he earned his command of the Enterprise by commanding a destroyer in a time of conflict. For the modern Kirk, he earned his command of the Enterprise because of connections. In the parlance of the 19th century, Kirk was a "political captain".
The old canon novel Darth Plageuis established that the Force itself created Anakin as a reaction to Plageuis and Sidious attempting to wrest control of the Force. Now, it's not technically canon anymore, but the new canon novel Tarkin references several events of that novel so I consider it to be canon still.
