Spoilers TOS: Child of Two Worlds by Greg Cox Review Thread

[Bibliomike]

Only thing I wasn't a fan of was the sheer speed of anger on the planet, and N1's reluctance to leave in the face of this given it was clear their presence was doing nothing.

I dunno - given the sheer speed of anger on our planet these days, the speed of the anger on Cypria doesn't seem at all unbelievable to me, sadly.

I preferred this to "Suddenly Human," also. I wondered, Greg, did you have the Elian Gonzalez case (not a strictly analagous situation) or some other specific incident in mind as you wrote?

 

[Greg Cox]

Only thing I wasn't a fan of was the sheer speed of anger on the planet, and N1's reluctance to leave in the face of this given it was clear their presence was doing nothing.

I dunno - given the sheer speed of anger on our planet these days, the speed of the anger on Cypria doesn't seem at all unbelievable to me, sadly.

I preferred this to "Suddenly Human," also. I wondered, Greg, did you have the Elian Gonzalez case (not a strictly analagous situation) or some other specific incident in mind as you wrote?

I absolutely had the Elian Gonzalez case in mind . . . .

And I know I must have seen "Suddenly Human" when it first aired, but I honestly don't remember it.

 

[TheAlmanac]

"Star Date" went through a similar metamorphosis to "Star Fleet," being shown onscreen as separate words as late as Star Trek III. TNG also had numerous Okudagrams which used "SD," though that is arguably more ambiguous.

The earliest onscreen use of "Stardate" that I can recall is in Star Trek V.

 

[Christopher]

Coming soon, a new television series: Startrek!

 

[Kertrats47]

Coming soon, a new television series: Startrek!

Well, that's just silly. Clearly, that's just my TrekBBS username spelled backwards.

 

[TheUsualSuspect]

Finished this yesterday. Looks like I’m the first one to vote average.

It’s not that I thought it was a bad book – I enjoyed it as I read it. I think I was just expecting something a little more. To me it seemed like it didn’t really take full advantage of being set during the Pike era. I felt like we really didn’t learn anything new about Spock or any of the other characters. This might partly be because I reread Vulcan’s Glory just before reading this (since Greg Cox said he had tried to make his story consistent with earlier Pike era stories where he could, mentioning Vulcan’s Glory specifically).

At some point as I was reading, it occurred to me that since the book was set after “The Cage” we could see major character changes or even a character death, but nothing like that happened. The closest we got was the mention of Yeoman Colt’s affinity for navigation. I actually expected that we’d get a scene near the end of the book where she either requests a transfer to navigation, or Pike suggests such a transfer to her.

As others have mentioned, the plot bears some similarity to the TNG episode “Suddenly Human,” and also the real life Elian Gonzalez story. But, to me, the book did not give any new insights or perspectives on those kind of issues.

Spoiler: plot points about Child of Two Worlds

The one thing that I actually thought could have been handled better in the story was the resolution of Merata’s return to the Klingons. Rather than helping facilitate an escape, I felt Spock should have taken her up to Pike on the bridge, and supported her in presenting her reasons for wanting to return to her adoptive people. We would then have seen Pike and Spock negotiating her return with the Klingons. To me, that feels more consistent with Spock’s character, but perhaps Cox’s intent was to show a less mature Spock who was less prone to trust emotional humans to see what he thought was the logical answer.

Despite my disappointment in this book, I do like Greg Cox’s work, and am looking forward to both “Miasma” and the first Legacies book.

 

[TheUsualSuspect]

Coming soon, a new television series: Startrek!

That post will come back to haunt you if that turns out to be the name of the new series!

 

[Bibliomike]

Coming soon, a new television series: Startrek!

Wouldn't surprise me. After all, colons are optional in movie titles now... why not spaces between words?

Eh, flibbedy floo....

 

[Klaus]

...I liked it a lot. Nice job as usual from Greg.

 

[Ronald Held]

Finally finished. It did have a Pike era flavor but more so from the novels cand comic books.
Perhaps the high points were Spock's invention of the the future gas intruder system and Boyce's cure for Rigilian fever.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I. . . description of Cyprian ears immediately made me think of the woman pictured on the cover of Michael Jan Friedman's Fortune's Light. Who is evidently not a Cyprian . . .

She's Impriman, from Dante Maxima VII, BTW. Re-reading it makes me wonder if the name of the planet's primary is a not-so-veiled allusion to the Divine Comedy.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

It would make sense, though; that's also why the adjectival form of "Venus" shifted from "Venereal" to "Venusian", after all.

Actually it would be "Venerean" in that context, but yes, the similarity to "venereal" was the reason it fell out of favor. (Same deal as mercurial/Mercurian, martial/Martian, or jovial/Jovian. Which suggests that Earthlings should properly be called Terrestrians rather than Terrans.)

I find myself imagining a Venusian with a social disease.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

Regarding Number One being an Illyrian... I believe it was Dorothy Fontana who came up with that interesting bit of backstory, but has any other Trek writer explored exactly what that means? Is Illyria an Earth colony? What is it's relationship with other Federation worlds? Do Illyrians as a people share Number One's characteristics and qualities? Or is she simply a mystery by design, with these questions purposely unanswered?

 

[Greg Cox]

That's indeed ambiguous. I went with the idea of that Illyrians are just one of the many human-looking species seen in TOS, although I suppose that Illyria could be a former Earth colony that has long since developed its own culture and identity.

And,yeah, I assumed that Illryian had a culture that very much prioritized achievement, independence, and personal achievement. Note how in "The Cage" Number One is willing blow the entire landing party up rather than allow the Talosians to breed a race of human slaves. And she does this without even consulting Pike first, even though he's standing only a few feet away at the time!

Some earlier novels suggested that she was the product of genetic engineering, but that's hard to reconcile with more modern episodes, so I quietly dropped that idea.

FYI: It's no secret that Number One plays a big part in my upcoming novel, CAPTAIN TO CAPTAIN, where we learn more about her past--and future.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

Thank you, Greg! I do recall the genetic engineering angle from fanzines, as well as her being the product of selective breeding and test tubes. That always felt off to me. I like where you're headed.

 

[GaryH]

That's indeed ambiguous. I went with the idea of that Illyrians are just one of the many human-looking species seen in TOS, although I suppose that Illyria could be a former Earth colony that has long since developed its own culture and identity.

And,yeah, I assumed that Illryian had a culture that very much prioritized achievement, independence, and personal achievement. Note how in "The Cage" Number One is willing blow the entire landing party up rather than allow the Talosians to breed a race of human slaves. And she does this without even consulting Pike first, even though he's standing only a few feet away at the time!

Some earlier novels suggested that she was the product of genetic engineering, but that's hard to reconcile with more modern episodes, so I quietly dropped that idea.

FYI: It's no secret that Number One plays a big part in my upcoming novel, CAPTAIN TO CAPTAIN, where we learn more about her past--and future.

Hi Greg,

I'm halfway through the book now. It is proving a nice way to relax into Christmas week.

I've pre-ordered Captain To Captain from bookdepository where we will learn more about Number One, but can we now assume that she is definitely not Morgan Primus from New Frontier? Or is that possibility still open? I think Peter David implied it strongly but never actually confirmed for definite if I recall correctly.

Thanks. Happy Christmas!

 

[Greg Cox]

That's indeed ambiguous. I went with the idea of that Illyrians are just one of the many human-looking species seen in TOS, although I suppose that Illyria could be a former Earth colony that has long since developed its own culture and identity.

And,yeah, I assumed that Illryian had a culture that very much prioritized achievement, independence, and personal achievement. Note how in "The Cage" Number One is willing blow the entire landing party up rather than allow the Talosians to breed a race of human slaves. And she does this without even consulting Pike first, even though he's standing only a few feet away at the time!

Some earlier novels suggested that she was the product of genetic engineering, but that's hard to reconcile with more modern episodes, so I quietly dropped that idea.

FYI: It's no secret that Number One plays a big part in my upcoming novel, CAPTAIN TO CAPTAIN, where we learn more about her past--and future.

Hi Greg,

I'm halfway through the book now. It is proving a nice way to relax into Christmas week.

I've pre-ordered Captain To Captain from bookdepository where we will learn more about Number One, but can we now assume that she is definitely not Morgan Primus from New Frontier? Or is that possibility still open? I think Peter David implied it strongly but never actually confirmed for definite if I recall correctly.

Thanks. Happy Christmas!

There have been multiple different backstories for Number One over the years, so I realized quickly that there was no way to incorporate them all. I pretty much cherry-picked what worked for the new books and came up with a composite version of Number One, while leaving Morgan Primus to Peter David to do with as he will, since NEW FRONTIER is his baby after all.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

So much of what PAD writes is with tongue firmly in cheek. He delights in breaking the fourth wall with puns and meta-references. Morgan Primus is definitely one of those.

 

[Greg Cox]

So much of what PAD writes is with tongue firmly in cheek. He delights in breaking the fourth wall with puns and meta-references. Morgan Primus is definitely one of those.

Along the same lines, Peter's novel THE RIFT attempts to explain why the ship's computer sounds like Number One, which I did allude to in the upcoming book. (Assuming that bit makes it through the next few rounds of revisions.)

 

[Markonian]

It's perfectly okay for her to think of herself as Illyrian in the 2250s and still be Morgan Primus in the 2360s. A lot can happen in between.

I wonder whether these Illyrians are in way (e.g. culturally) related to the Illyrian region on Earth, or the Illyrians from ENT season 3, "Damage"? The similarity of the name may also be merely coincidental.