Agents of SHIELD: Season 3 - Discussion (SPOILERS LIKELY)

[CorporalCaptain]

Coulson's dive through the portal was all-in. He just made it through before he'd've been as a bug on a windshield.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

So Coulson goes thru the portal diving at terminal velocity (or close to), which means he then zips UP through the other side. I wonder how high he went before he fell down again and went boom. Apparently not high enough to pop his chute.

Spoiler: portals

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I'm thinking that Mack asking those questions regularly might be part of why Coulson decided on appointing him.

That plus (as he specifically mentioned) Mack was the only one who didn't have a personal grudge against Ward that might cloud his thinking.

 

[apollo1984]

Personal grudge or not, I cant see coulson handing shield to just anybody.

 

[Christopher]

^How in the world is Mack "just anybody?" He's been an important member of the team for a year and a half now (although, granted, he was technically working for a rival team for much of that time).

 

[Grendelsbayne]

^How in the world is Mack "just anybody?" He's been an important member of the team for a year and a half now (although, granted, he was technically working for a rival team for much of that time).

I think that's the point... That Coulson making him director is proof that Mac is truly major league...

 

[FPAlpha]

Well. who would have been the alternative?

May doesn't want command, Skye (or Daisy) is a young field operative with much to learn so also not yet command material, Fitz and Simmons also too young and in engineering rather than command (and also captured by Ward), Hunter is a loose cannon and Bobbi is also a field operative and may be suitable for command one day but also too young (and he needed both for his special mission).

So Coulson's options were rather limited.. Mack had the experience and the level head, the fact that he butted heads with Coulson speaks to his devotion to the cause and that he's not afraid to speak his mind or act when he feels it's warranted.

It might have been unfamiliar terrain for Mack but he had the tools to do it, he just needed time. He was about in the same position as Coulson when he inherited Shield after Fury stepped down but Coulson grew into it and so would Mack.

What happens now is anyones guess (personally i think it's safe to assume that Coulson makes it back somehow and assumes command again but with the knowledge that Mack could replace him).

 

[JD]

It will be interesting to see if being put in command has any kind of lasting effect on Mack and his position in S.H.I.E.L.D. I could see him taking on a bigger role in the running of the agency now.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well. who would have been the alternative?

May doesn't want command, Skye (or Daisy) is a young field operative with much to learn so also not yet command material, Fitz and Simmons also too young and in engineering rather than command (and also captured by Ward), Hunter is a loose cannon and Bobbi is also a field operative and may be suitable for command one day but also too young (and he needed both for his special mission).

So Coulson's options were rather limited.. Mack had the experience and the level head, the fact that he butted heads with Coulson speaks to his devotion to the cause and that he's not afraid to speak his mind or act when he feels it's warranted.

It might have been unfamiliar terrain for Mack but he had the tools to do it, he just needed time. He was about in the same position as Coulson when he inherited Shield after Fury stepped down but Coulson grew into it and so would Mack.

What happens now is anyones guess (personally i think it's safe to assume that Coulson makes it back somehow and assumes command again but with the knowledge that Mack could replace him).

It would have taken 3 hours at most to ship in a Koenig, if there isn't an assembly line in the basement mass-producing Koenigs.

I know we don't have a clear count on the staff at that base, but if there are thousands of support staff (janitors, mechanics and clerks?), that means that there's a floor in Wonderland that looks like an Office block administrating the base, transforming the directors vague pointing into triplicated paperwork, and makes sure that everyone is paid.

Wonderland is mah-ah-ah-assive, but we only ever see a couple rooms and their garage.

 

[Lyon_Wonder]

Well. who would have been the alternative?

May doesn't want command, Skye (or Daisy) is a young field operative with much to learn so also not yet command material, Fitz and Simmons also too young and in engineering rather than command (and also captured by Ward), Hunter is a loose cannon and Bobbi is also a field operative and may be suitable for command one day but also too young (and he needed both for his special mission).

So Coulson's options were rather limited.. Mack had the experience and the level head, the fact that he butted heads with Coulson speaks to his devotion to the cause and that he's not afraid to speak his mind or act when he feels it's warranted.

It might have been unfamiliar terrain for Mack but he had the tools to do it, he just needed time. He was about in the same position as Coulson when he inherited Shield after Fury stepped down but Coulson grew into it and so would Mack.

What happens now is anyones guess (personally i think it's safe to assume that Coulson makes it back somehow and assumes command again but with the knowledge that Mack could replace him).

It would have taken 3 hours at most to ship in a Koenig, if there isn't an assembly line in the basement mass-producing Koenigs.

I know we don't have a clear count on the staff at that base, but if there are thousands of support staff (janitors, mechanics and clerks?), that means that there's a floor in Wonderland that looks like an Office block administrating the base, transforming the directors vague pointing into triplicated paperwork, and makes sure that everyone is paid.

Wonderland is mah-ah-ah-assive, but we only ever see a couple rooms and their garage.

The official name of SHIELD's main base is the Playground.

I also wonder what happened to the Illiad, which was Gonzalez's floating base of operations in S2. Was the Illiad too badly damaged by Jiaying's inhuman attack? Or maybe shield no longer has enough manpower to both crew it and operate the Playground and shield's other facilities at the same time?

Or maybe the Illiad was seized or given over to the US navy or is laid up in a drydock?

 

[FPAlpha]

Well. who would have been the alternative?

May doesn't want command, Skye (or Daisy) is a young field operative with much to learn so also not yet command material, Fitz and Simmons also too young and in engineering rather than command (and also captured by Ward), Hunter is a loose cannon and Bobbi is also a field operative and may be suitable for command one day but also too young (and he needed both for his special mission).

So Coulson's options were rather limited.. Mack had the experience and the level head, the fact that he butted heads with Coulson speaks to his devotion to the cause and that he's not afraid to speak his mind or act when he feels it's warranted.

It might have been unfamiliar terrain for Mack but he had the tools to do it, he just needed time. He was about in the same position as Coulson when he inherited Shield after Fury stepped down but Coulson grew into it and so would Mack.

What happens now is anyones guess (personally i think it's safe to assume that Coulson makes it back somehow and assumes command again but with the knowledge that Mack could replace him).

It would have taken 3 hours at most to ship in a Koenig, if there isn't an assembly line in the basement mass-producing Koenigs.

I know we don't have a clear count on the staff at that base, but if there are thousands of support staff (janitors, mechanics and clerks?), that means that there's a floor in Wonderland that looks like an Office block administrating the base, transforming the directors vague pointing into triplicated paperwork, and makes sure that everyone is paid.

Wonderland is mah-ah-ah-assive, but we only ever see a couple rooms and their garage.

And what would Koenig do? He's an administrator and has shown some other skill areas (and i mean not his love of videogames, more like interrogation and perception) but he was never portrayed as command material. He's the guy who can run the day to day operations of a facility, make sure everything is available as needed but he's not the guy for stragic decisions.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I think somebody briefly touched upon the idea upthread, but we should brace ourselves for the possibility that they're planning to change/expand Ward's role, rather than end him. My guess--He's going to wind up merging with / being replaced by / becoming an avatar of the thing on the other side...a Super-Ward for Daisy and Her Amazing Friends to fight.

 

[Guy Gardener]

And what would Koenig do? He's an administrator and has shown some other skill areas (and i mean not his love of videogames, more like interrogation and perception) but he was never portrayed as command material. He's the guy who can run the day to day operations of a facility, make sure everything is available as needed but he's not the guy for strategic decisions.

A joke was made that there's 8 of them, and maybe there is, or maybe there isn't.

Actual octuplets, or clones, god knows, but if there's 5 more that we haven't seen, then one of those boys could have a wealth of command experience.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Coulson could have put May in charge if he needed to. She was still there for Mack to consult with. He just decided that it was a good time to put Mack on the line because of what May had been through.

I think it was a big mistake to kill Rosalind. I was hoping she'd eventually be promoted to headliner. There were so many possibilities.

Still, this was a hell of an episode. It was great to see Mack in charge and it's nice to know he comes after May in the pecking order-- I've been thinking that he hasn't had enough to do this year-- I don't think he's had one conversation with his pal Fitz-- and it was a great moment when he repeated to the team exactly what Coulson said to him. Poor Coulson. I don't think we really needed to see him driven to extremes, but Clark Gregg really got to show his stuff. And now Fitz and a bunch of HYDRA goons are on Planet Hell-- and so is Coulson. I'm not quite sure how that happened, since the portal seemed to close before he got through the conveniently open roof. I wonder if Hunter made it, too.

I just really, really hope we are finally going to see the end of Ward.

Apparently you didn't see the epilogue to the episode that answer your questions

I saw that scene, but I didn't see Coulson go through. It looked like the portal dried up before he went through the conveniently open roof. I must have blinked.

After watching I had to back it up to see Coulson shoot through just before the black goo stargate closed- I love the fact Hydra did not even notice him do it.

That's what I missed. I'll have to go back and rewatch it, too.

I think somebody briefly touched upon the idea upthread, but we should brace ourselves for the possibility that they're planning to change/expand Ward's role, rather than end him. My guess--He's going to wind up merging with / being replaced by / becoming an avatar of the thing on the other side...a Super-Ward for Daisy and Her Amazing Friends to fight.

Ack.

 

[P Tom]

Daisy, Lincoln and Joey vs one hydra metal-manipulating henchman. The odds should be on shield's side.

Hydra still has Lash in their custody. Assuming that they deploy Lash, he's a danger to all sides.

 

[Christopher]

Also, Giyera can't be their only Inhuman agent. They'd been testing Terrigen mist on dozens of people, and there were whole crates full of shed cocoons in that secret lab.

 

[DEWLine]

I also wonder what happened to the Iliad, which was Gonzalez's floating base of operations in S2. Was the Iliad too badly damaged by Jiaying's inhuman attack? Or maybe SHIELD no longer has enough manpower to both crew it and operate the Playground and shield's other facilities at the same time?

Or maybe the Iliad was seized or given over to the US Navy or is laid up in a drydock?

Good questions, all. We know that SHIELD has "field offices" scattered across the rest of the planet, but how many, and what size, what they're capable of hosting...those are other questions as yet unclear. They also had a place to keep Helicarrier 64 until the rescue of the Sokovians from Ultron forced their hand there. The disposition of that "Theta Protocol" base is similarly unclear.

 

[DEWLine]

As regards whether or not Giyera's alone...the first clip unveiled for publicity purposes re: "Maveth" is addressing that directly.

 

[Sci]

So is Not Magneto somebody we should know from the comics?

Mr. Giyera is apparently an original character.

And it seems appropriate that the actor who played the Chairman on Iron Chef America is playing someone with the superpower to manipulate cutlery. Although I have to wonder -- if he tortured Jemma badly enough to make her scream that much, even after being toughened by her exile, how come she only has a scratch on one cheek and nothing else?

I believe the implication is that she was tortured in ways that were painful but not permanently damaging. Presumably she'd be badly bruised or cut away from her face. I imagine they wanted to keep Henstridge looking relatively pretty to up the romanticism in her final scene with De Caestecker. "Come back to me."

Have to admit, killing off Rosalind two minutes into the episode was a bit of a shocker. For a few seconds there I actually thought they were doing a dream sequence. Now that I've had a little time to digest it and that they also killed off Banks, I can't help but feel this smacks of "we have no idea what to do with these characters now, so let's just dispose of them."

I'm okay with it, insofar as it helps keep the show more realistic if sudden death is a plausible plot development. It probably also suits their purposes, since it removes SHIELD's only advocate in the legitimate government and therefore helps keep SHIELD as an underground organization.

My problem with the death of Rosalind is that it should have been the final scene in "Many Heads, One Tale," not the opening scene to "Closure."

I liked how shockingly sane Ward's little brother turned out to be, despite being the "real" victim of his family--not having anyone else to pass the abuse onto. Grant's excuses and rationalisations are sounding more and more hollow. Of course he'd probably say that the only reason Thomas remains innocent is because he did the nasty things necessary to protect him.

I may actually be changing my opinion that Ward's character is played out and needs to die. They my be on the cusp of giving the character a new direction...and it may have something to do with that thing on the other side of the portal...

I thought "Closure" was a wonderful examination of Ward. I think he's become a really fascinating example of a villain who is not charming to the audience, who is not an embodiment of the audiences' dark impulses they can enjoy vicariously through the villain's antics. He's a psychopath and a murderer who refuses to take responsibility for his actions, which is much closer to reality.

Interesting that Malick characterised Pierce as "bloodthirsty". I mean he's not wrong--the man straight-up murdered his housekeeper like it was a minor inconvenience--but the charming and outwardly rational way Redford played him makes you forget he was probably a psychopath.

It also illustrates how I think this whole "Hydra-as-ancient-cult" thing just doesn't jive with what we knew of Hydra pre-"Many Heads, One Tale." What exactly would have been the point of Project Insight in terms of the ultimate goal of rescuing the Ancient Inhuman?

Hydra pre-"Many Heads" felt more grounded in reality; it was a fantastical version of a real-world fascist movement, with a political agenda that was to be achieved through fantastical means but which was not itself fantastical. Now, on the metafictional level, it's lost its real-world political grounding; it's just a bunch of guys there to do a thing that is obviously evil little grounding in real-life political agendas.

Also implies that Malick was the one that recruited him...so who recruited Malak? He's actually probably old enough to have been recruited by Zola before he got his brain uploaded.

I don't know that this means Malick recruited Pierce. Assuming their characters match their actors' ages, Pierce would have been born in 1936 and Malick in 1948. And I don't think either would have been recruited directly by Zola -- Pierce traced his willingness to join Hydra to the hostage situation Fury rescued his daughter from in Bogotá after he (Pierce) was already a high-ranking official in the U.S. Embassy there. So it's my impression that this probably happened some time in the 1970s; Zola was uploaded in 1972. So I think more than likely, Pierce was recruited by someone else.

Malick? No idea when he was recruited. But he would have only been 24 when Zola was uploaded. So I'm skeptical that it would have been Zola.

I seem to be saying this on a weekly basis: Kill off Ward. Now. He is irredeemable. And he's overstayed his welcome.

I think it's fascinating to have a long-term recurring non-romanticized villain, through whom the audience does not get to vicariously live out its dark fantasies, who used to a trusted main character and friend and lover to the heroes.

Something disturbing has just occurred to me. This episode did not serve its female characters at all well. Roz was out-and-out fridged in the most cliched way possible, killed by a male villain to enrage a male hero. Simmons was tortured to motivate another male hero. Bobbi had good advice that the men around her totally ignored in their gung-ho macho revenge fest. And Daisy and May were pretty much sidelined. The show's usually better at gender balance than this, so I can forgive it, but it had better be a one-time thing. And it's a lousy ending for Roz's arc.

Excellent point regarding the treatment of women in this episode.

As regards whether or not Giyera's alone...the first clip unveiled for publicity purposes re: "Maveth" is addressing that directly.

Here's a question:

Fitz called Planet Hell "Maveth" in this episode.

When did the characters discover the planet's name? I must have missed that.

 

[The Old Mixer]

What exactly would have been the point of Project Insight in terms of the ultimate goal of rescuing the Ancient Inhuman?

What could be a better "welcome home" gift than established world dominion?