Am I the only one who dislikes the Enterprise-E?
- Thread starter GregroxMun
- Start date
I really still don't understand why people keep referring to the E-E as a battleship. There is literally NO CANON evidence for this, only fan-made. People asumed it is, because we saw it fighting the Borg the very first movie it was on screen.
But seriously, the E-E is simply a starship. Nothing battle about it. Sure, it can kick ass, but Voyager or the E-D were as effective in combat. I mean, look at the Galaxy's swooping in and kicking ass during the Dominion War. Does that suddenly mean it's a battleship?
But seriously, the E-E is simply a starship. Nothing battle about it. Sure, it can kick ass, but Voyager or the E-D were as effective in combat. I mean, look at the Galaxy's swooping in and kicking ass during the Dominion War. Does that suddenly mean it's a battleship?
As you said, it's a popular fan designation. No different than calling the Enterprise E a "flagship" which is occasional heard too. Or the TOS Enterprise a heavy cruiser.
Enterprise E is quite bland. It's not something that inspires me at all. But I don't hate it either I suppose.
Excelsior is OK but it's very bulky looking. It doesn't shape up well at the back compared to the Constitution class. Constitution class ships look really great facing the moon for example.
I like the Nebula class ship. It's a cool way to reimagine the Miranda class.
Galaxy and movie era Constitution class ships are absolutely a pair of stunners.
Voyager, again, bland. It's clear enough they ran out of ideas to make these ships elegant and impressive and they wound up making alot of dull platypus look-alikes for ships
Excelsior is OK but it's very bulky looking. It doesn't shape up well at the back compared to the Constitution class. Constitution class ships look really great facing the moon for example.
I like the Nebula class ship. It's a cool way to reimagine the Miranda class.
Galaxy and movie era Constitution class ships are absolutely a pair of stunners.
Voyager, again, bland. It's clear enough they ran out of ideas to make these ships elegant and impressive and they wound up making alot of dull platypus look-alikes for ships
That's my favorite design, Enterprise Refit, just awesome.
It's sad we never got a fleet Scene seeing more than one fighting for the Federation.
I don't think it's terrible per-say, but I'm not 100% fond of New Movie Era Constitution design.
Compared to the D it looks sleeker, more streamlined (useless in a vacuum, of course) and more compact. Plus it has the zigzag pattern around the top of the saucer. These make the ship look more aggressive. Also, the hero ship is in a battle in every TNG movie, though of course that includes the D in GEN.
So these combine to make fans think of the E as a battle-oriented ship, although objectively I think the only notable difference is that they no longer have families aboard (none that we see, anyway).
JJ's Enterprise is like a photocopied masterpiece. It's just not the same and comes across as quite a bit clunkier.
I always thought it was a missed opportunity that the Star Trek Voyager concept wasn't based around a Constitution class ship whisked away from the time of the original movies and then eventually made its way back, battered and bruised 70 years and seven seasons later.
We'd have a series with a cool looking ship, a real sense of longevity with 70 years compressed into 7 seasons of intergenerational drama. Instead we had that frowning, bland "platypus" class ship and a mission that was no longer than any other bog standard deep space escapade.
Well, ancillary evidence from DS9 would suggest that the Fleet as a whole was becoming much more 'militarized' at around the time 1701-E left dock. So, while I agree it never gets spelled out directly in screen evidence that Enterprise-E was a battleship rather than a ship of exploration (aside from Picard's sarcastic jab in ''Insurrection''), it's not really such a big leap to make. And as you say, with the more sombre interior sets and the darker uniforms, and the sleek exterior which looks like it 'means business' compared to the admittedly clunky-looking 1701-D, there's every indication what Starfleet's priorities were at the time. We never see 1701-E battle the Dominion, but it makes perfect sense for *that* ship to exist at *that* juncture in Starfleet's history.
Between the designs of the Sovereign Class, the Intrepid Class, and the Defiant, there was clearly a much more ''battleship sterility'' thing going on.
The Enterprise-E was never actually sent into battle:
* The ship was actively excluded from battle in FC.
* At the beginning of INS, they are doing a diplomatic meet-n-greet, and Picard opts out of solving some territorial dispute by saying "We can't delay the archaeological expedition to Hanoran Two. That'll put us right in the middle of monsoon season." Then they have to do a milk run to pick up their android. There's a hint of the Dominion war, but apparently it's not so urgent as to require Picard's attention.
* In NEM, the Ent's initial "mission" seems to be delivering the Troi's to their honeymoon planet. Then they are diverted on a diplomatic mission to Romulus.
* The ship was actively excluded from battle in FC.
* At the beginning of INS, they are doing a diplomatic meet-n-greet, and Picard opts out of solving some territorial dispute by saying "We can't delay the archaeological expedition to Hanoran Two. That'll put us right in the middle of monsoon season." Then they have to do a milk run to pick up their android. There's a hint of the Dominion war, but apparently it's not so urgent as to require Picard's attention.
* In NEM, the Ent's initial "mission" seems to be delivering the Troi's to their honeymoon planet. Then they are diverted on a diplomatic mission to Romulus.
I'm not a fan of the dark warm tone interior. I prefer the cool tones vs warm tones for ships, but I dislike D more even if it's what I grew up knowing. D color scheme looked too Miami of the 80's with the beige and flesh tones. eww. Ugly, ugly ship, the Enterprise D. Go ahead and boo me. I can have an opinion 
.... on screen. But that doesn't mean that her off-screen adventures weren't more overtly militaristic (and given that they're supposed to be contemporaneous with DS9 and the whole Dominion War thing, I'd say that it was almost a certainty.)
Nobody is disputing for a moment what we saw in the movies. What is in play is what it got up to between movies. Sure they did the usual milk runs. But given that Starfleet as a whole was supposedly batoning down the hatches and preparing for a war at the time, it'd be silly to assume the Flagship was relegated to piece-meal diplomatic work and putting out small-fry brush fires for the majority of her missions. If nothing else the usual Planet-Of-The-Week escapades would likely be intercut with something much less... 'Roddenberryan', if I can put it that way.
And 1701-E's general design aesthetic certainly feels more akin to a battleship than the 1701-D ever did, outside of the occasional Wacky Alternate Universe Episodes(tm). The Sovereign Class looks designed to kick ass without taking down names.
Regardless of what you imagine what might have happened between the movies, all we know is what happened IN the movies (obviously overlooking whatever happened in the novel-verse).
Saying the E looked more like a battleship than the D is not saying much, considering the D was basically the Hollywood Hotel in space.
Well, yeah. But the contemporaneous week-by-week adventures were what was going on over at Deep Space Nine. And what we saw there was Starfleet (albeit temporarily, probably) becoming embroiled in a war, and adjusting their tactics (and sometimes their ethics) accordingly. To suggest that the flagship of the fleet was immune to that change is a little silly, IMHO.
eyeresist said:
Well, yes it is. And what its saying is, ''The E looked more like a battleship than the D''. Which has been exactly what I've been saying all through this thread.
For me, the Enterprise D is Roddenberry's vision finally actualised with this ship. I don't know for sure but I can well imagine GR being happier with D than the Constitution class ships. Constitution class ships look militaristic to various degrees. D, on the otherhand, is a pleasure cruiser in space but when they do go into battle, it's quite clear that the D can pack a wallop and can go face to face with most battle ships of the rival powers. Picard and Co are totally composed going into battle and the sight of the D exchanging phaser/torpedo fire is convincing.
The D to me represents a Starfleet ship not even primarily geared towards exploration but to diplomacy in an enlarged and settled Federation and Picard does a heck of alot of mediation throughout the series run and indeed that's the expertise that he's renowned for. The interior of D looks like a ship that ferries diplomats all the time and is designed to keep them in some comfort.
E is like a defacto battleship and seems only technically to be a ship of exploration in an era where the Dominion/Borg are severely testing the Federation. I see the Enterprise A in a similar vein presumably in respect to the Klingon challenge. I think Federation/Starfleet sometimes plays this sleight of hand where they develop these ships for defence purposes whilst ensuring that the exploration ethos is stressed to give a partial plausible deniability. We sometimes see rivals are cynical of the Starfleet ethos and accuse Starfleet of actually being a militaristic and expansionist organisation -- perhaps with some merit.
I think this view is partially vindicated in Starfleet's treatment of Defiant class ships. These are designed to tackle the borg, they are openly regarded as a ship designed for battle and not alot else and yet is a class that is quite unloved. The Federation seems embarrassed to have developed this ship for battle purposes only and it's only used reluctantly by Starfleet as training ships and as a complementary to DS9.
The interesting thing about First Contact is that here we have this zero sum battle near earth, apparently as grave or even graver than 359 and yet they have this powerful, cutting edge Sovereign class ship at a loose end on some patrol duty just because Picard is regarded as being mushy headed over the borg. Rest assured, if there is a zero sum engagement underway, I'd make arrangements to ensure that cutting edge ship was in the thick of the action -- with or without Picard.
The D to me represents a Starfleet ship not even primarily geared towards exploration but to diplomacy in an enlarged and settled Federation and Picard does a heck of alot of mediation throughout the series run and indeed that's the expertise that he's renowned for. The interior of D looks like a ship that ferries diplomats all the time and is designed to keep them in some comfort.
E is like a defacto battleship and seems only technically to be a ship of exploration in an era where the Dominion/Borg are severely testing the Federation. I see the Enterprise A in a similar vein presumably in respect to the Klingon challenge. I think Federation/Starfleet sometimes plays this sleight of hand where they develop these ships for defence purposes whilst ensuring that the exploration ethos is stressed to give a partial plausible deniability. We sometimes see rivals are cynical of the Starfleet ethos and accuse Starfleet of actually being a militaristic and expansionist organisation -- perhaps with some merit.
I think this view is partially vindicated in Starfleet's treatment of Defiant class ships. These are designed to tackle the borg, they are openly regarded as a ship designed for battle and not alot else and yet is a class that is quite unloved. The Federation seems embarrassed to have developed this ship for battle purposes only and it's only used reluctantly by Starfleet as training ships and as a complementary to DS9.
The interesting thing about First Contact is that here we have this zero sum battle near earth, apparently as grave or even graver than 359 and yet they have this powerful, cutting edge Sovereign class ship at a loose end on some patrol duty just because Picard is regarded as being mushy headed over the borg. Rest assured, if there is a zero sum engagement underway, I'd make arrangements to ensure that cutting edge ship was in the thick of the action -- with or without Picard.
I agree with this, though I think the actual crew eventually developed some affection for the ship.
Loved the Enterprise-E personally. My second favourite Federation ship, after the Connie refit.
Nah, I agree. Hated that ship's interior and exterior.
Ugly, ugly ship, the Enterprise D. Go ahead and boo me. I can have an opinion
Nah, I agree. Hated that ship's interior and exterior.
Loved the Enterprise-E personally. My second favourite Federation ship, after the Connie refit.
Ugly, ugly ship, the Enterprise D. Go ahead and boo me. I can have an opinion
Nah, I agree. Hated that ship's interior and exterior.
The E is my least favourite hero ship.
From certain angles it looks terrible. My first reaction when I saw the D in 87 was "That's a fat looking ship" although I did learn to love it.
Connie Refit all day long though. Gotta love the Starship porn of TMP.
No. I can't stand it -- and not only the design, but also the concept. There was no need to destroy the D. Flux Capacitor even showed us how great the D could have been in First Contact. Check it out.
I do tend towards thinking that the Connie-refit is the 'magnum opus' of Star Trek ship design. It subtlely updates the iconic TOS design without over
designing it, sanding out the edges of the design and improving it.
By contrast, one could argue that many of the other ships in the franchise, up to and including NX-2000, 1701-B, 1701-D, 1701-E, NCC-74656, and even the guest ships in later Voyager like the Equinox etc, are terribly over-designed. For my money, maybe only 1701-C and the Defiant, and maybe NX-01, managed to capture the iconic simplicity that Jefferies original design had, and which the Connie-refit improved on without going "a step too far", as the likes of Excelsior did with it's bulk and pointless flanges, or that 1701-E and Voyager did with their elongated look (1701-D taking the opposite tack and being shorter and wider, but still effectively being an over-cooked design). Certainly I always thought the Intrepid-Class in particular looked ridiculously unbalanced with that long saucer section.
On the other hand, I know there are plenty of you who'll think that the later designs improve on the others. Sometimes I just think they're over-designed with pointless changes and additions. Like the old saying says, "Too many cooks spoil the broth".
designing it, sanding out the edges of the design and improving it.
By contrast, one could argue that many of the other ships in the franchise, up to and including NX-2000, 1701-B, 1701-D, 1701-E, NCC-74656, and even the guest ships in later Voyager like the Equinox etc, are terribly over-designed. For my money, maybe only 1701-C and the Defiant, and maybe NX-01, managed to capture the iconic simplicity that Jefferies original design had, and which the Connie-refit improved on without going "a step too far", as the likes of Excelsior did with it's bulk and pointless flanges, or that 1701-E and Voyager did with their elongated look (1701-D taking the opposite tack and being shorter and wider, but still effectively being an over-cooked design). Certainly I always thought the Intrepid-Class in particular looked ridiculously unbalanced with that long saucer section.
On the other hand, I know there are plenty of you who'll think that the later designs improve on the others. Sometimes I just think they're over-designed with pointless changes and additions. Like the old saying says, "Too many cooks spoil the broth".
I do tend towards thinking that the Connie-refit is the 'magnum opus' of Star Trek ship design. It subtlely updates the iconic TOS design without over
designing it, sanding out the edges of the design and improving it.
By contrast, one could argue that many of the other ships in the franchise, up to and including NX-2000, 1701-B, 1701-D, 1701-E, NCC-74656, and even the guest ships in later Voyager like the Equinox etc, are terribly over-designed. For my money, maybe only 1701-C and the Defiant, and maybe NX-01, managed to capture the iconic simplicity that Jefferies original design had, and which the Connie-refit improved on without going "a step too far", as the likes of Excelsior did with it's bulk and pointless flanges, or that 1701-E and Voyager did with their elongated look (1701-D taking the opposite tack and being shorter and wider, but still effectively being an over-cooked design). Certainly I always thought the Intrepid-Class in particular looked ridiculously unbalanced with that long saucer section.
On the other hand, I know there are plenty of you who'll think that the later designs improve on the others. Sometimes I just think they're over-designed with pointless changes and additions. Like the old saying says, "Too many cooks spoil the broth".
You should see some of the Fed designs in Star Trek Online *shiver*
I personally don't mind ENT-E, but I prefer the Constitution-class version (including the Abramsverse version). However, I do agree that there are some ships which come off over-designed.
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