Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by GregroxMun, Jul 1, 2015.
"Weapons to maximum!"
Oh...wait...that was SG1
This week on Star Trek: The Next Generation...
The Enterprise encounters a particle. Geordi falls in love with a strange woman, who turns out to be The Particle in disguise, and through observing his struggles, Data comes out step closer to understanding humanity.
Meanwhile, Worf is charged with the duty of looking after Data's cat.
I love the Enterprise-E; the perfect ship for the film she was made for. Just as the Enterprise-D was perfect for the show it was made for. I especially love the look of the warp nacelles on the Ent-E. She's lean and mean!
Despite my dislike of 1701-E in general, I am in agreement with the second half of this statement. She ''fits'' with the aesthetic of Star Trek: First Contact like a glove. It's the following two movies where I kind of look at her and think, ''Yeah, doesn't quite work''. IMHO.
To quote Riker: "yes, I do indeed concur wholeheartedly". The ent-E was perfect for First contact, whereas the Ent-D was perfect for the TV-show.
I mean, just try to picture Picard saying 'Conference!' in the Ent-E after the first exchange of fire with the Borg cube in "Q who", the apparently damaged Cube still hanging there menacingly, after which everone goes to a separate room, dedicated to conferencing, to have a relaxed chat about the situation for 15 minutes or so ...
Wouldn't feel quite right, would it ?
You know, I actually agree with this, though I'm not really sure why.
It might have something to do with the Borg battle in FC and how all of the ships were still physical models. It also helped to see the brand new Enterprise in a fleet of equally brand new starship classes.
Yes. Yes, OP.
As all people on the internet asking "Am I the only one?", you are the only one.
The ONLY one.
I'd be easy-breezy on the U.S.S. Cruise-ship too.
Or at least the only one in the first post of this thread.
The more I think about it, the more I despise the ugly Enterprise E. It encapsulates nothing that I love about Trek ship designs and doesn't work period. IT might as well be called the U.S.S. Pumpkin Spice.
I'm all for retroactively going back and doing new SFX and designs so a different Enterprise is in the film.
This, very much this.
I do not understand people who say the E doesn't fit the look, that it isn't an enterprise. Compared to what exactly? Somebody explain to me how the D fits the design lineage, especially how it does and the E doesn't. The E is much much closer in concept to the original model, with elements such as the circular deflector and shuttle bay at the aft of the engineering hull.
The D's nacelles do not even rise to or above the saucer. I would argue that the D is the most un-Enterprise design... sans the NX, but the NX was to denote a time before the standard. Also, the NX was supposedly planned to have been refit, gaining a proper engineering hull.
I do not hate the Galaxy class. but I did get the feeling that it was a floating palace, that despite having TNG-era weaponry and capabilities that it was more of a symbol of starfleet and the era rather than a ship that pulled its weight. They gave it enough phaser power and a large torp bay, enough to handle most common threats of the time. However, as the show went on it started to fall behind. Again, that phaser gave us a huge array. The overall size could give an imposing angle. However, you can argue that it wasn't as well armed compared to other star-fleet vessels if scaled up. it would be about the same or maybe even less. yes, we got those fancy type X phaers, however it always seemed to me that the D fought with bard more than bite.
I suppose for a ship of exploration that is ok, however what is questionable is allocating so many resources to one ship.
Would it not be more effective to have two or maybe three ships, armed bout as well (comparatively) regarding arcs and output?
The Galaxy class is bloated, and too much of a target. compare it to a Romulan D'Derix class. The Romulans had a bigger ship (maybe not in terms of volume though?) but they also gave it plenty of disrupters to protect their investment.
There's a clear message with the D. People say, but the D isn't a military ship but was Kirks's a military ship? Not specifically though TOS clearly drivers a more military format. Even if Kirk's wasn't a warship, Starfleet was clearly more militarily minded. Ships weren't lavish. I do not think this can be attributed to technology alone. Starfleet couldn't afford not to run a tight ship, or flaunt their wealth. Practicality was key.
I see the E as moving back toward that point. Cutting the bloat, getting back to mission critical systems and mission-specific paradigm. No family quarters, no excess labs and resource drains. An exploration vessel isn't the same as a vessel dedicated multiple on-going science experiments.
I think the Galaxy tried too much to do everything and in that regard it is pretty well rounded and a good choice for a flagship or command vessel, but it is not going to excel at any specific mission other than being a well-rounded platform. The Nebulae i would concur excelled at being a more affordable and modular version of this schema.
I will say this for the D. It grows on you. I find it much more elegant now than i did, having a deeper appreciation for what it is. It was built for beauty shots though arguably some angles are better than others.
I think some of its smoothness should have put put into the Sovy. The Sovy is smooth, sleek, although it could have been much smoother if it wasn't overly detailed. That has always been a slight disappointment. Though really, the only gripe I have with it is that the impulse engines are 'caged in' which without a work-around would interfere with the direction of the thrust.
I hear "it is sad that ships will take after the E"
Ships are going to take after the general movie and post TNG-style. That's just the natural evolution of it, and it isn't impractical. I don't think every new ship has to follow that route however cutting-edge mission critical and specific ships will be built tight, to the need of them.
The big thing I think many people hate is the lack of the "neck" but... the neck has always been a weakness and design flaw... really. When it was first introduced it clearly defined design elements and worked to establish the icon. Is it practical however from an engineering standpoint? To be fair...
Keep in mind as well, that as the ship gets bigger the neck becomes more of an issue when it comes to structural integrity... and take a look at how the design of the D affects its warp-field. See how it makes it less uniform?
What happens when you subject a ship like the D to the stresses of a slipstream tunnel? That isn't a primary concern yet, but future ships will have to account for it.
Aerodynamics and dissipation of hull stress may not have been an issue TNG and prior, however we aren't dealing with Scotty's physics anymore.
On thing I do tend to agree with tough, with those who are fans of the D. it could have had a refit and had plenty more years. It does not make sense to show this is plausible numerous times in the show and not even consider it in the movies, especially if the issue was mostly with internal sets.
Though while i miss the phase-lance I'm glad we don't have to deal with that third nacelle.
I'd like to see someone take the Galaxy and perhaps turn it into a command carrier or figure how to optimize those mission specific strengths.
^ For me it isn't so much that it ''doesn't look like an Enterprise'', as it is that it looks atypical of the Enterprise associated with The Next Generation.
It may sound novel, but when they're putting The Next Generation onto the big screen, I kind of expected the movies to be like The Next Generation. It seemed like the last couple TNG movies were stepping further and further away from that, both in terms of the human characters, but also in the aesthetics of things (uniforms, interior sets, the look of the starships, etc).
Mind you, there are plenty of people on these forums who hated the ''Next Generation Aesthetic'' and were more than happy to see the back of it in the movies! So at the end of the day it just comes down to personal preference. 1701-E just doesn't light my fire.
the TNG movies had to be more dramatic for FC and onward, because Generations was a TNG television episode expanded into a movie. And it was lackluster. FC was more exciting and a chance to do something fresh with a New ship, new action. Trying to moderate FC into being more like other TNG episodes almost killed Star Trek with Nemesis.
I oscillate on my feelings with the D. It lacks the perfect circles and art-deco look of the TMP era, so i can throw it out as easily as I can with the entire spinoff look and feel (LCARs, the single-piece suits, warm coloring, hilton interiors, organic shapes... and so on).
The Enterprise-E is at least an a call back to the sexier, more dynamic designs of previous Enterprises to be exciting. In some angles she can be beautiful, with the sweeping nacelles, sleek presentation, and more dynamic contrast of some colors. But I'd trade her in a heartbeat for the Refit or the NX excelsior.
Though if they had gone with Eves' original forward-canted nacelle pylons, I'd be first to express distaste for the new design. It would be a chicken at that point.
I do think 1701-E still retains some vestigages of it's chicken-in-a-pan heritage, even though Eaves' modifications to the design lessen it somewhat. From some angles I'm sure I can still see it.
1701-D looked more like a waterfowl of some description. Maybe some kind of runner duck.
There's that scene early in First Contact, during the space battle, wherein the 1701-E, heralded by the familiar notes, sweeps dramatically into view, filling the screen.
I can't imagine the "D" looking as good here.
^That is the precise moment I fell in love with the E-E. That visual connected itself to my fond memories of the Enterprise refit looking just as graceful and powerful.
And some might be all for going back in further and retroactively going back and doing new designs for the Ent-D.
Can't please everyone all of the time. Though one has to wonder how reations would be had the Soverign Class been used in the series and the Galaxy in replaced it.
The main problem I had with the Ent-D isn't so much the pastel-hotel interior (although that was a factor), it's mainly the saucer section just looked a little too big. Seemed a bit out of balance.
I remember when some of the publicity for First Contact came out. Someone said the Enterprise-E would make DS9's Defiant look like a sliver of soap.
I think the Enterprise D looked a little top heavy at times. But I still think I like it more than the "E". Maybe it's just what I'm used to.
I used to dislike the Enterprise-D too, then I fell in love with the characters and ship kind of followed that so by the time "Generations" came around, I was actually sad to see her go. Although the crash sequence was exciting and made the ships destruction quite memorable. I felt similarlywhen the Refit was destroyed, like an old friend had died.
About the design and interiors of the 1701-D. I love the TNG aesthetic, it was warm and inviting, it felt like a home. I actually wouldn't mind living there. The original Enterprise was supposed to feel as welcoming, I think; that's why early on they put coffee in peoples hands and 'civilian' clothes on extras. I think the overall 'clunky-ness' of the sets makes it feel more militaristic. Though anything would look militaristic when compared to the Enterprise-D! I don't think that's what they were going for in TOS.
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