Agents of SHIELD: Season 3 - Discussion (SPOILERS LIKELY)

[JD]

I didn't realize so many of the big parts of the Marvel Universe were introduced in FF. Maybe it's the rights go down to number of appearances? Did the Silver Surfer or the Inhumans appear more as supporting elements of the FF or on their own? What about the Kree and the Skrulls?

I guess the question of the Inhumans movie goes down to which site you trust more? The guy who runs Bleeding Cool has gotten quite a few legitimate scoops over the years, so he apparently does have trustworthy sources. Hitfix is also a pretty big deal in online entertainment news.

 

[Christopher]

I didn't realize so many of the big parts of the Marvel Universe were introduced in FF.

Well, the Marvel Universe itself was introduced in FF, essentially. It was the beginning of the interconnected, superhero-driven universe as we know it and as Lee, Kirby, Ditko etc. created it, even if elements from earlier comics (Cap, Namor, original Human Torch, Groot, etc.) were folded in later.

 

[JD]

I knew it was the first comic that became part of the Marvel Universe, I just didn't realize it established so much of the universe.

 

[Briet]

Great start so far, although season 2 was a bit more mysterious for me at this point, more engaging. I honestly didn't expect to get Simmons back so fast, but her foreshadowed psychological sub-story seems interesting. Also, I hope they keep the longer hair for her.

Does anyone have ideas who could be on Daisy's team beside Joey and Lincoln "Sparkplug" Campbell? (Why would he keep that nickname from Gordon?)

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Question:

Is Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. about S.H.I.E.L.D. anymore? It sounds like the show should be renamed Inhuman Rising or something.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Coulson is still director of SHIELD and trying to restore its stature and credibility, so the name is still valid. The "Secret Avengers" are just a subdivision of SHIELD.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Secret Warriors (Most of you are not comic-ignorant, but some of you are, and no matter how true the phrase comic-ignorant is, it sounds reasonably offensive. Sorry.) was a mindfuck of a comicbook from a few years ago where Nick Fury explored ignoring Child Labour Laws by using the offspring of well known Superheroes, Super Villains and Gods to fight for him.

 

[Mr Light]

It was also about the shocking revelation that Hydra had always infiltrated and controlled SHIELD from the very beginning. Sound familiar?

 

[Christopher]

Question:

Is Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. about S.H.I.E.L.D. anymore? It sounds like the show should be renamed Inhuman Rising or something.

It was established from the start of the MCU, and particularly from the start of AoS, that part of SHIELD's purview was the recruitment and management of "gifted" individuals. In the movies, SHIELD created the Avengers. In the first season, they often dealt with the "gifted index." Now, they're working to establish the Secret Warriors and manage the Inhuman situation. It's consistent with what they've been about all along.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Question:

Is Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. about S.H.I.E.L.D. anymore? It sounds like the show should be renamed Inhuman Rising or something.

Considering the Inhumans are leading to Secret Warriors and there are at least two spy vs. spy plots going on (one with Hydra, one with ATCU) and there's storylines about internal drama of members of SHIELD, I'd say the name is still appropriate even if there are Inhumans on the show.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I knew it was the first comic that became part of the Marvel Universe, I just didn't realize it established so much of the universe.

In the Sixties it, along with Spider-Man, was Marvel's flagship title with Stan Lee writing and Jack Kirby drawing and plotting. FF and Spidey set the tone of Marvel along with laying a lot of the ground work. Even X-Men and Avengers played second fiddle to them with Lee turning over the writing to other people early on.

The first "modern day" appearance of Nick Fury was in FF#21.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Secret Warriors (Most of you are not comic-ignorant, but some of you are, and no matter how true the phrase comic-ignorant is, it sounds reasonably offensive. Sorry.) was a mindfuck of a comicbook from a few years ago where Nick Fury explored ignoring Child Labour Laws by using the offspring of well known Superheroes, Super Villains and Gods to fight for him.

I am indeed comic book ignorant of anything that happened after Civil War-- and of a lot in the couple of years before Civil War.

 

[Reverend]

I'm probably in the minority, but I think that even if Marvel got back the rights to the 'Fantastic Four', I'd rather not see them integrated the way Spider-man is going to be.
As a concept, it just seems...too silly and cute for my tastes, at least without some drastic re-imagining.

One good way to do it may be to borrow the idea from Ant-man by having them be former SHIELD operatives, working in secret in the 60's & 70's. That'll allow for some of the old retro charm to be preserved and negate most of the need to take it all *too* seriously.

Another tac could be to go all meta with it and have the F4 be a fictional thing within the Marvel Universe. Like a cartoon, or tv drama/action show produced by Stark to help underwrite the humanitarian efforts of the Avengers and generally promote the brand to kids.
Or maybe even a reality TV show, because let's be honest, if people with superpowers were a real thing, there'd be at least one reality show about them. You could get into all sorts of satire with that one: focused tested uniforms, faked drama in the form of Ben & Jonney's bickering and Reed & Sue's relationship being a publicity stunt.
I'm sure core comic fans would hate the very notion, but I think it would be a novel approach. Certainly the four person/family set-up has some of the hallmarks of something that's been created in committee to appeal to various demographics.

 

[Admiral2]

I'm probably in the minority, but I think that even if Marvel got back the rights to the 'Fantastic Four', I'd rather not see them integrated the way Spider-man is going to be.
As a concept, it just seems...too silly and cute for my tastes, at least without some drastic re-imagining.

Which opinion is a pretty good indicator that you've never read a single issue of the comic. There was nothing "cute" or "silly" about the story arc that introduced the Inhumans to the universe.

One good way to do it may be to borrow the idea from Ant-man by having them be former SHIELD operatives, working in secret in the 60's & 70's. That'll allow for some of the old retro charm to be preserved and negate most of the need to take it all *too* seriously.

But there are some parts that should be taken seriously...and those are the parts filmmakers keep screwing up.

Another tac could be to go all meta with it and have the F4 be a fictional thing within the Marvel Universe. Like a cartoon, or tv drama/action show produced by Stark to help underwrite the humanitarian efforts of the Avengers and generally promote the brand to kids.
Or maybe even a reality TV show, because let's be honest, if people with superpowers were a real thing, there'd be at least one reality show about them. You could get into all sorts of satire with that one: focused tested uniforms, faked drama in the form of Ben & Jonney's bickering and Reed & Sue's relationship being a publicity stunt.
I'm sure core comic fans would hate the very notion, but I think it would be a novel approach. Certainly the four person/family set-up has some of the hallmarks of something that's been created in committee to appeal to various demographics.

Count me among the haters.

 

[Reverend]

^Yeah, my impression of F4 is almost entirely based on vague memories of the old 90's cartoon, some snippets of cameos in various other comic books and the parts of the first two movies I was awake for (not being pithy, I actually fell asleep watching 'Rise of the Silver Surfer' at the cinema.)

So I fully admit I don't have a firm grasp of the source material. Still, even without all that the basic concept is pretty dated and is in some dire need of reinterpreting, without it somehow managing to be even more of a snore-fest, which I gather the most recent attempt achieved against all odds.

Better I think to use the material in a new and interesting direction than retread old ground.

 

[gblews]

^Yeah, my impression of F4 is almost entirely based on vague memories of the old 90's cartoon, (snip)

So I fully admit I don't have a firm grasp of the source material.

Nothing like not having a firm grasp on the subject yet still offering "solutions" on how to "fix it". This is the path that has led to the current state of the FF movie franchise.

Still, even without all that the basic concept is pretty dated and is in some dire need of reinterpreting,

What is the "basic concept" you are referring to?

 

[Reverend]

^First, I'd like you to point out specifically where I used the words "solutions" or that I could "fix it". Do not try to put words in my mouth.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I want to be modern, but I can't even remember who was writing Fantastic Four before it was cancelled nearly 6 months ago.

Your local library has a website because you don't live in the third world, or that town from Footloose. The website allows you to order from every library in the district, who will then forward the books you want to your nearest branch.

Why don't you try searching for the Jonathan Hickman Fantastic Omnibus if they have any in stock?

OH!

Jim Robinson!

James was deconstructing the Fantastic Four, seriously the Thing went to Jail for ripping a door off a cab in FF#1 (1962) and RED uniforms? Red? But that's all swept under that carpet now becuase of Secret Wars.

They're just waiting for the stink of the movie to drift off.

 

[kitik]

I'm probably in the minority, but I think that even if Marvel got back the rights to the 'Fantastic Four', I'd rather not see them integrated the way Spider-man is going to be.
As a concept, it just seems...too silly and cute for my tastes, at least without some drastic re-imagining.

How about this: 30 years ago they travelled to the Negative Zone. They came back a day or week later, but found that decades had passed in the real world. Or 4 long-lost astronauts that the whole world thought were dead. (The only problem there is that there might be a super similar approach if Hank rescues Jan in the Ant-Man sequel.) Though now that I think about it, Reed may not be much of a modern day super scientist if all of his technology was 30-40 years out of date.


Of course, bottom line is that FF probably won't be in the MCU anytime soon. It's much more useful to think of what-if scenarios for Moon Knight or Nova or Ghost Rider or Blade or Kamala Khan or even Ka-Zar or Namor.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Okay so imagine someone had their severed off head stuck into stasis, with instructions to be awoken for the next Fantastic Four Movie, which is why they were revived and rebuilt 3 months ago.