Adam Buckner, the guy who designed it (And built the model), has said that it should be scaled to it's Miranda class components. The Memory Alpha page states that as well:
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Centaur
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Fleet construction
- Thread starter Unicron
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Adam Buckner, the guy who designed it (And built the model), has said that it should be scaled to it's Miranda class components. The Memory Alpha page states that as well:
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Centaur
With the Nebula class there seems to be a niche for a large utility vehicle. A utilitarian, multi-role vehicle with a variety of mission pods.
Basically a big, flying, Swiss Army knife.
This also appears to apply to the Apollo class images I have seen- rearranging Ambassador components in a Miranda style, then adding a mission pod.
I have to wonder if some classes mentioned but not shown might be similar. The Excelsior offshoots seem to be particularly diverse, so I have to wonder if one class experimented with a Miranda-style-plus-mission-pod configuration.
Basically a big, flying, Swiss Army knife.
This also appears to apply to the Apollo class images I have seen- rearranging Ambassador components in a Miranda style, then adding a mission pod.
I have to wonder if some classes mentioned but not shown might be similar. The Excelsior offshoots seem to be particularly diverse, so I have to wonder if one class experimented with a Miranda-style-plus-mission-pod configuration.
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Discussion of transitional designs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_XB-48
Please note that the B-45 was actually produced as a stop gap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_B-45_Tornado.
I think that one or more of mentioned but not seen classes...might have been stop gaps. I suppose such a class would have been considered obsolescent even as it was built.
I expect that such ships would have been mothballed.
Discussion of Trek mothball fleets=
http://memory-gamma.wikia.com/wiki/Mothball
Trek boneyard
www.modelermagic.com/?p=56479
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_XB-48
Please note that the B-45 was actually produced as a stop gap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_B-45_Tornado.
I think that one or more of mentioned but not seen classes...might have been stop gaps. I suppose such a class would have been considered obsolescent even as it was built.
I expect that such ships would have been mothballed.
Discussion of Trek mothball fleets=
http://memory-gamma.wikia.com/wiki/Mothball
Trek boneyard
www.modelermagic.com/?p=56479
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Discussion of aircraft boneyards
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_boneyard
Discussion of reserve (mothball) fleets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_fleet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_boneyard
Discussion of reserve (mothball) fleets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_fleet
On an older thread I noticed that someone else came to a conclusion similar to mine, that the Sovys were designed as a replacement for the aging Excelsiors.
(Even with refits, I figure that the space frame and hull would eventually wear out)
(Even with refits, I figure that the space frame and hull would eventually wear out)
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Indeed, Shark. And I suspect that the Akira class had a similar intent, but with a design somewhat smaller than the Sovereign class.
I have a question regarding post war new builds....
With the advent of Slipstream, would the Star Fleet brass deem as obsolescent the Sovereigns, Defiants, Galaxies, Nebulas, and Prometheus?
With the advent of Slipstream, would the Star Fleet brass deem as obsolescent the Sovereigns, Defiants, Galaxies, Nebulas, and Prometheus?
They would still be needed within and around Federation space. For all we know, a true "slipstream fleet" not fully come into fruition for some time. It's even conceivable that it may never happen as it still didn't quite work right for the Voyager crew, but slipstream could lead to comparatively faster warp drives instead maybe.
It's more likely that they'd just refit them with the new tech.
Or accept the risks and equip a handful of Slipstream ships, crewed with Right Stuff astronauts.
What could they do with such ships? Maybe a bit of deep space exploration.
Or use them as couriers.
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This is pure speculation based upon no 'real' facts but, after seeing the Sabre class model by Eaglemoss, I noticed that the ship (Sabre) has two trenches on the top with greeblies that are very similar to those found on the Reliant! I am curious if that is somehow meant to suggest that the Sabre is a replacement for the "Miranda" class? Scant evidence I know but...
It's a neat little easter egg that I didn't pick up on before.
It's a neat little easter egg that I didn't pick up on before.
I think that during peace time most of the fleet would be multi-purpose/multi-role vessels, work horses. A small number of ships would be dedicated science ships, analagous to today's oceangraphic vessels. A small number would be the big exploration cruisers, the premiere ships of Star Fleet.
With much of the fleet destroyed, however, what sort of vessels would you be building?
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Ooooppssss!
I forgot to specify. Yes, I was thinking in terms of the Dominion War losses.
I'm not sure what percentage of the fleet was destroyed personally; clearly it was a significant number, but I don't think the allies were necessarily in a position where the losses would make them potentially unstable in terms of defense. I don't know if any of the books have addressed the idea much. My headcanon tends to have more of the fanon vessels that could be used for tactical purposes, so I like to imagine Starfleet would have had more of its warships fighting than we see canonically. And it's entirely possible that as a lot of them are older designs, they might have taken higher casualties than would have been expected when they were originally built.
I think Starfleet would want to build more traditional multirole vessels to help recoup some losses, though it's also possible they'd also want to build more tactical vessels to ensure they have something to fight with in the short term if they actually need it.
I think Starfleet would want to build more traditional multirole vessels to help recoup some losses, though it's also possible they'd also want to build more tactical vessels to ensure they have something to fight with in the short term if they actually need it.
As I define a military, Starfleet definitely is one. A military is a government organization with a license to kill anywhere. Police have jurisdictions limiting where they can legally kill, but soldiers can be sent anywhere, even within their own country, kill under their origin country's rules, and return without prosecution. Starfleet has a license to kill on behalf of the Federation.
As for fleet structure, DS9 makes it pretty clear that pure warships are not a thing, or if they are they are obscured by code words. In the Defiant's case, the code words was Escort, but that gives more credit to the idea that the Defiant as a pure warship is definitely unique in Starfleet. I imagine every ship is designed from the ground up as multipurpose, Defiant- and Prometheus-classes excluded, some may lean more toward combat, but will make up for it in other ways.
It makes sense, the universe itself may very well be the single greatest enemy to life in Star Trek. Good engineering and science have saved the hero ships more than good guns, and the majority of time is spend just treking around space, not fighting. However, the Borg, and the Dominion War had to have had a strong impact. The aforementioned Defiant and Prometheus are respectively the start of a trend and the affirmation of that trend in Starfleet's disposition.
The story of TNG is partly certain elements in Starfleet emerging from innocence and realizing the unrelenting hostility of the universe's occupants. Best of Both Worlds shows us people in the background were forced into thinking about the issue. Sisko shows us that thinking bore fruit but got waylaid. Voyager shows us the thinking finally took hold, where in the final scene Voyager is escorted by multiple Defiant class ships and a Prometheus class ship part of a larger fleet constantly guarding the Solar system. By comparison all the Solar system had in "Best of Both Worlds" was a few drones or small ships around Mars which were trivially swatted aside. "First Contact" also shows us the the fleet has been heavily updated at least in part, and it follows through in DS9.
All together, my expectation wouldn't be exploration fleets and pure combat defense fleets. I would expect every fleet to have a small core of dedicated combat ship to augment the force of every fleet. The captain on a Galaxy, or Nebula, or Sovereign class ship might act as fleet captain, but it's going to be the Defiants or Prometheuses anchoring the edges of the fleet or forming the core escorts of the flagship. For one thing it keeps things more flexible, and better fits what we've actually seen.
The Federation is definitely more US than UN, or even EU. Member fleets would be more akin to National Guard units. The state to which they belong are able to command them as they desire, but the Federal government can call on the National Guard units to fight as part of the Federal armed services.
I also believe it is likely members, like the Andorians, have their own fleets acting as, if anything, a coast guards or outright system defense forces.
Post War Procurement
Warships:
Defiant class-retain the existing vessels.
www.asdb.net/asdb/docs/sotsf/SOTSF1.pdf
If you scroll down, some interesting comments regarding the Prometheus. Considered too valuable to risk capture or destruction during the Dominion War, it was diplomatically problematic in regards to neighboring powers.
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How long does it take to, first, design a capital ship, and then build it?
I have been having a problem posting a link to the Excalibur forums, for a thread entitled Federation Ship in Order of Combat Effectiveness. It is commented that the Sovereign class was indeed intended as a replacement for the aging Excelsiors. There are diagrams that compare the Sovereign to the Galaxy.
Which would explain why the Enterprise E was available to fight the Borg in First Contact; the Sovys had been a work in progress, rather than a dedicated anti-Borg project.
I have been having a problem posting a link to the Excalibur forums, for a thread entitled Federation Ship in Order of Combat Effectiveness. It is commented that the Sovereign class was indeed intended as a replacement for the aging Excelsiors. There are diagrams that compare the Sovereign to the Galaxy.
Which would explain why the Enterprise E was available to fight the Borg in First Contact; the Sovys had been a work in progress, rather than a dedicated anti-Borg project.
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That's somewhat hard to judge, since Trek has never been very clear or consistent on how its resources or economy works. FASA assumed that currency wasn't completely obsolete in the Federation and that Starfleet officers and others received a regular paycheck, and that Starfleet had to regularly account for the resources it needed to the Federation Council (IIRC). Since it functioned in both a military and exploratory role, and since there were occasions where political issues caused problems with specific ships or officers (on one occasion, a dispute between the Tellarites and the Andorians led an Andorian commander to attack several Tellarite vessels in an attempt to force their hand), the Council was responsible for approving what vessels could be built and to what extent. This is actually what the fleet captain's rank was for by the time of TNG - a fleet captain was a flag officer between commodore and admiral whose job was to oversee starship construction and work on specialized projects like the Excelsior and Galaxy classes. A FASA commodore would have five silver pips as rank insignia and a fleet captain five gold pips.
I tend to think that Jackill's third volume, which includes a number of Excelsior and Oberth family variants and Excelsior type upgrades for the FJ classes, could probably be assumed to represent Starfleet's upgrade/building around the turn of the 24th century. By that point, the Excelsior would have proven a reliable design and an earlier volume had TMP-era refits of the FJ ships, so it would be pretty silly for Starfleet to go through the trouble of those refits and then immediately switch to Excelsior versions.
It's also hard to judge what constitutes "old" in the Trek universe when it comes to technology. That we still see older Excelsiors and Mirandas in service implies that they could be upgraded and such extensions aren't too uncommon. The models themselves might be decades old of course, but that's not the same as the ships being obsolete.
I tend to think that Jackill's third volume, which includes a number of Excelsior and Oberth family variants and Excelsior type upgrades for the FJ classes, could probably be assumed to represent Starfleet's upgrade/building around the turn of the 24th century. By that point, the Excelsior would have proven a reliable design and an earlier volume had TMP-era refits of the FJ ships, so it would be pretty silly for Starfleet to go through the trouble of those refits and then immediately switch to Excelsior versions.
It's also hard to judge what constitutes "old" in the Trek universe when it comes to technology. That we still see older Excelsiors and Mirandas in service implies that they could be upgraded and such extensions aren't too uncommon. The models themselves might be decades old of course, but that's not the same as the ships being obsolete.
